Arlo Pro 5S - (missing events, taking snapshots). Pro 4 in same location works fine.

[chicane]

I've had ongoing headaches with my Pro 5S cameras not detecting events or taking snapshots instead.

Today I did a side by side test with a Pro 4 camera in the same location. Both devices are on 2.4GHz and connected to an outdoor Ubiquiti AP (great signal strength for both). I did try the device on 5GHz and found it to be similarly flaky so reverted to a hopefully more stable 2.4GHz connection. Unfortunately not.

Since I have done this side by side test, the Pro 4 is detecting every event (and recording a video). 

The pro 5 recorded video once, completely missed one event and recorded a snapshot instead for the third event. With the video was choppy and audio partially missing at the start, while the Pro4 was smooth and had audio for the full clip.

Both devices are active under my subscription, set identical under the routine (to record video), and smart notifications set the same.

I've had this replaced with a new sealed unit by support for the second time with the same outcome.

Are these devices inherently faulty? anyone else experiencing similar?

[BrookeN]

The firmware has started rolling out. It should be completed within the next week. As soon as that is fully rolled out the behavior you are seeing will be resolved. 

[BrookeN]

I have this escalated to the engineering team. I will update the community as soon as possible. 

[chicane]

Hi @StephenB, re: subjective opinion:
"Subjective views or opinions are not based on truth or fact. They are one person's unique interpretation of an idea and their own thoughts, feelings, and background. A subjective observation is influenced by a number of factors, including many different types of biases" (Source: https://www.masterclass.com/articles/subjective-vs-objective-information-explained).

I think you'd find most users would perceive Arlo to be a video surveillance solution.

While wired/wireless are a point of difference, they are simply alternative network connection methods. 

Have a read of this link, what would you suggest Arlo is compared to other video surveillance systems? a direct or indirect competitor? 

https://blog.hubspot.com/marketing/direct-indirect-competition

[StephenB]

---

@chicane wrote:

I think you'd find most users would perceive Arlo to be a video surveillance solution.

---

I said that "CCTV is a specific category of video security system." I never said that Arlo's solution wasn't also a video security system (or that it wasn't a video surveillance solution).  It clearly is.  

As I also said, I prefer to call the hard-wired systems "PoE" and not CCTV.  I used CCTV in this thread because that is the way @jguerdat referred to it in his comment.  In fairness to him, the industry generally does call them CCTV systems.

I believe that classification is objective, not subjective. Systems sold as CCTV security systems in the US typically use power-over-ethernet cameras connected to network video recorders.  They often are professionally installed.    Many are either NDAA or ONVIF compliant (or both).  Many of the cameras record at higher bitrates than Arlo cameras, and have better video quality.  These systems do not need internet connectivity to function or to access them locally.  Of course, remote access does require an internet connection, and some features (like AI) might also require optional cloud services.   

This categorization has shifted a bit over time.  I've seen CCTV security system definitions that describe "CCTV cameras" as SD and "surveillance cameras" as HD.  Which is clearly incorrect if you look at the specs of CCTV cameras.  And there are some vendors who offer wireless cameras in addition to PoE cameras.  But these systems are still quite different from what Arlo offers - which is a DIY wireless video security solution built on a cloud service.

[StephenB]

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@Edinburgh_lad1 wrote:

@StephenB "Both overlap coverage of the front door, and I haven't seen much difference in PIR sensitivity when people come to that doorway."

But that implies that you've seen some then. Isn't that enough to prove the point?

---

No.  I've seen some missed events from both cameras.  So I wouldn't say either is perfect.  But I haven't found that one is detecting motion better than the other.

Also, the Ultra / Pro 5s comparison might not give the same result as a Pro 3/Pro 4/Pro 5s comparison.  The Ultra has two PIR sensors, the other cameras only have one.  I suspect that is because at the time Arlo couldn't find a single sensor that covered the entire field of view of the Ultra.  But I don't know for sure.

---

@Edinburgh_lad1 wrote:

I agree with @chicane on the definition of CCTV being extended. 

---

Certainly definitions change over time, I mentioned that in my last post.  But in the US there are very clear differences between systems currently being marketed as "CCTV systems" and other video security solutions like Arlo, Ring, and Nest.  My previous post identifies some of those differences in more detail.

And (maybe back on point???), @jguerdat was categorizing CCTV system and Arlo's solution as I've been describing them.  We got into this swamp because I tried to clarify what he was saying.

[chicane]

Semantics aside, let's bring the focus back to the case in point. 

@BrookeN when you can, please reply to my message (#663) and roundball's (#669) on page 27 of this thread. thanks. 

[Edinburgh_lad1]

Seriously @chicane save yourself a lot of headache and take your camera back for a refund, citing not fit for purpose as the reason, and replace it with something else. You started this thread back in March; it's been nearly 10 months, with the issue surfacing earlier even, and the problem isn't solved yet. 

[BrookeN]

1. Production Firmware - 1.050.33.10_106_3a163f7 - 35% released as of today
2. The issues should be resolved with this current Production firmware, if you are still seeing the same behavior after the production firmware is available please let me know. 
3. Field Trial versions and released dates 

1.050.33.6_71_393f539    - Aug 31-
1.050.33.8_90_76db0d4    - Oct 22
1.050.33.9_99_88d5709-    Nov 15
1.050.33.10_105_3a163f7 - Dec 4  - Current FT

[WLynne]

Thank you.

I confirm I received the update of December 4/24 on my Pro 5 cameras.

My Door Bell firmware remains unchanged.

[GW1a]

@BrookeN my 5s camera has this new firmware installed, but the operation seems to be worse.....many missed detections, plus recordings only lasting 10-12 seconds (instead of until the activity stops as per my selected settings).  Was this firmware fully tested before being released?

[roundball]

@GW1a @BrookeN    12.28.24 UPDATE REPLY

Same situation here GW1a…it continues to be the same poor quality situation that it’s been for a very, very, very long time.

EXCEPT….. for a few weeks during September / October, when a new

Field Trial Firmware # 1.050.33.6_71_393f539 was installed on my 5s cams.

Everything suddenly worked as the 5s cams were advertised they would.

Everything was fast, clear, catching all motions, immediate notifications, quick postings to Feed in 10 seconds, etc.  Excellent quality operation for a few weeks.

The bad news is that after those few weeks from September into October…thinking arlo had finally fixed the 5s cam problems…arlo suddenly changed the firmware again and the 5s cams haven’t worked properly any time since that excellent Field Trial Firmware was removed from my 5s cams. 

I’ve repeatedly asked to please reinstall

Field Trial Firmware # 1.050.33.6_71_393f539 on my 5s cams.

But amazingly, no willingness to work with me in an obvious perfectly working situation they should be able to learn from…instead, they just keep changing firmware and my 5s cams just keep failing.

[chicane]

@BrookeN would it be too much to ask for an open and honest disclosure regarding the current Pro 5S known issue status? I find it interesting that you are asking for feedback if issues continue, where there are multiple anecdotes suggesting there is.

Could I ask you follow up via DM with a contact number of someone there (ideally above Jeffrey/Jeff - who has ignored my messages) so I can ask some pertinent questions that I can come back to the thread with? 

@roundball thanks for keeping the pressure on. I do wonder how much of these performance woes are device/firmware related vs. issues with the Arlo cloud platform. It's tough trying to work with a deceptive company. 

[chicane]

@GW1a I've seen multiple issues rolled out to prod causing various headaches requiring a rollback (forcing out the old firmware as a new release so the camera picks it up).

Their QA testing is lacking and amateur at best - same as their management team.

The fish rots from the head.. 

[GW1a]

The icing on the cake.....

@BrookeN is there any further update following my last message? I certainly have no intention of paying an increased subscription fee for the current service.

[BrookeN]

I just got back from the holidays, so I will look into this today and update you as soon as possible. 

[roundball]

@GW1a @BrookeN 

I'm in complete agreement with GW1a position about any $$ increases.
Nothing but problems since November 2023 and no intentions of paying MORE money for continued failing arlo security cams.

PS: I'm still waiting to have what was the excellent

Field Trial Firmware # 1.050.33.6_71_393f539 reinstalled on my 5s cams

........................................................................................

Reference my past open requests:

5s cam operation / performance continues to be poor quality that it’s been for a very, very, very long time.

EXCEPT….. for a few weeks during September / October, when a new

Field Trial Firmware # 1.050.33.6_71_393f539 was installed on my 5s cams.

Everything suddenly worked as the 5s cams were advertised they would.

Everything was fast, clear, catching all motions, immediate notifications, quick postings to Feed in 10 seconds, etc.  Excellent quality operation for a few weeks.

The bad news is that after those few weeks from September into October…thinking arlo had finally fixed the 5s cam problems…arlo suddenly changed the firmware again and the 5s cams haven’t worked properly any time since that excellent Field Trial Firmware was removed from my 5s cams.

I’ve repeatedly asked to please reinstall

Field Trial Firmware # 1.050.33.6_71_393f539 on my 5s cams.

But amazingly, no willingness to work with me in an obvious perfectly working situation they should be able to learn from…instead, they just keep changing firmware and my 5s cams just keep failing.

[Edinburgh_lad1]

I think the request from the wider community is/should be that ultimately, the user is in charge of firmware updates - the what and the when - and should do so since we as users own their cameras/smarthubs etc. and so should do whatever we please with them.

I know of no device that doesn't allow the user control firmware updates.

This request is more apropos given the history of Arlo/Netgear repeatedly forcing firmware updates that are buggy, then the company progressively, deliberately and surreptitiously reducing the quality of the product (akin to bait-and-switch). Examples are plentiful, one of the more prominent ones is the new user experience that I'd describe as a complete fiasco that should cost someone their job.

[roundball]

@BrookeN  @Edinburgh_lad1 @chicane @GW1a

Arlo's sudden new forced prices and billing changes are shocking / incredible, given the past year's very poor Pro4 and Pro5s product quality, product support, and customer support.

To name just a few points that are still in play:

1) Continued unresolved months & months of 5s cams not working correctly;

2) No capability of a user being able to download the 5s Firmware as they want;

3) 5s cams still won't work on base stations without their old Firmware being forced back on.

[roundball]

@BrookeN @Edinburgh_lad1 @chicane @GW1a

Related questions for the Brain-Trust:

Given all the ongoing problems with arlo 5s cams, if I don't use the pending new expensive subscription plan, will my existing UI App still work and maintain basic interaction with the cams?

And if so, shouldn't I be able to connect the 5s cams to a Base Station and switch to local USB attached recording?

I know from previous tests, that when attached to a Base Station, the Base Station forced the 5s Firmware back to an earlier version.

But given the continued never-ending 5s problems anyway, I'm not sure that would be a showstopper.  Just looking for ways to end this nightmare.

Would appreciate helpful replies...thanks

[StephenB]

---

@roundball wrote:

if I don't use the pending new expensive subscription plan, will my existing UI App still work and maintain basic interaction with the cams?

yes.

---

@roundball wrote:

And if so, shouldn't I be able to connect the 5s cams to a Base Station and switch to local USB attached recording?

---

yes.

[Edinburgh_lad1]

With users not being able to upload specific versions of firmware, there's no guarantee that the base station will revert to an earlier version of firmware. In other words, you're at the mercy of Arlo and whether your base station has been scheduled to receive an update and what the current update is.

Another option is to use Scrypted with your Arlo, but I've not experimented with it yet. There are a number of guides online on how to set it up. 

The way to end this nightmare is to return the problematic cameras for a refund or sell them on eBay, and to get something in place that will suit your needs better. 

[roundball]

@BrookeN 

Hello BrookeN...hope you had a good Christmas & New Years.

Following up to try and get status updates from you on these issues we've been dealing with.

We'd all really, really appreciate your help with these issues.

Thanks

....................................................................

@GW1a @BrookeN 

I'm in complete agreement with GW1a position about any $$ increases.
Nothing but problems since November 2023 and no intentions of paying MORE money for continued failing arlo security cams.

PS: I'm still waiting to have what was the excellent

Field Trial Firmware # 1.050.33.6_71_393f539 reinstalled on my 5s cams

........................................................................................

Reference my past open requests:

5s cam operation / performance continues to be poor quality that it’s been for a very, very, very long time.

EXCEPT….. for a few weeks during September / October, when a new

Field Trial Firmware # 1.050.33.6_71_393f539 was installed on my 5s cams.

Everything suddenly worked as the 5s cams were advertised they would.

Everything was fast, clear, catching all motions, immediate notifications, quick postings to Feed in 10 seconds, etc.  Excellent quality operation for a few weeks.

The bad news is that after those few weeks from September into October…thinking arlo had finally fixed the 5s cam problems…arlo suddenly changed the firmware again and the 5s cams haven’t worked properly any time since that excellent Field Trial Firmware was removed from my 5s cams.

I’ve repeatedly asked to please reinstall

Field Trial Firmware # 1.050.33.6_71_393f539 on my 5s cams.

But amazingly, no willingness to work with me in an obvious perfectly working situation they should be able to learn from…instead, they just keep changing firmware and my 5s cams just keep failing.

[BrookeN]

@roundball I am looking into this today. I will let you know when they are moved over to production. 

[roundball]

@BrookeN 

BrookeN Arlo Moderator

‎2025-01-07 10:23 AM

@roundball I am looking into this today. I will let you know when they are moved over to production.

.....................................................................

Thank you...

FWIW, I moved my spare 5s over to a Base Station last night.

It has Firmware # 1.050.33.10_106_3a163f7 that you had downloaded.

To my pleasant surprise, doing so did not force that firmware back to an older version, like it did a few months ago when I tried that.

Then I added a USB Flash Drive to the Base Station and ensured that all worked OK.

So if you can't get them to re-download the excellent September FTF that I had, at least my other main four 5s cams should also work on a Base Station with Firmware # 1.050.33.10_106_3a163f7.

Be great if they would download to the other four tonight.

[roundball]

Related question to the Brain Trust:

if I go local WITHOUT continuing a ‘subscription’…IE: Base Station, USB Drive recording, UI App sill works, etc…what will I actually be missing without the ‘subscription’ ??

Thanks

[a102768]

I believe mainly smart notifications and a snapshot image with the notifications.

I lost that for a few weeks and only realised how useful they were when I got them back as you can just quickly glance at the notification to see if you need to take any action.

I am trialing at reduced cost the more expensive subscription with enhanced notifications for person and vehicle recognition and, although the are cool, they aren't worth the difference in subscription cost. It tells me when the postman and courier goes past and when my wife's car comes up the drive but I can just look at the image to work that out!

I have tried to teach the beta AI when to alert me when my gate is open but it doesn't seem to be able to handle that so I will drop back to the basic single camera subscription at the end of the 3 month trial and hope I don't lose the thumbnail image with the notifications again.

[Edinburgh_lad1]

Well, with local storage, the major difference isn't about smart notifications but about the fact that you won't be able to access local storage outside of your local network. Unless you set up port forwarding, which, I believe, is also broken on the Arlo app on some phones (Apple?). 

I've been using local storage for years now and people fret that outside of their network, they won't be able to act if there is a break-in or something. Well, recordings as such are meant to be used for evidential purposes only and there are lots of examples here in the UK when people got in trouble with the law upon taking matters into their own hands when seeing on their (non-Arlo) cameras a crime being committed. This should be dealt with by the police only.

So, I think local storage is sufficient long term and one can always do live-view on their cameras, but obviously it's my personal opinion.