Interesting Response From Tech Support

[DaveWoj]

This was my response to tech support regarding the Arlo Pro switching to night vision vs an Original Arlo.

https://arlo.netgear.com/hmsweb/users/library/share/link/D551FEFE3BE0A141_201701

https://arlo.netgear.com/hmsweb/users/library/share/link/459FC017ECBDEADD_201701

NETGEAR Support 1/12/2017 11:26 PM Hi, Dave, Thank you for your prompt response. Upon checking on our end, your Arlo pro camera is the one with the black and white image. I think this is because the night vision of the Arlo pro camera is enabled due to low light source on the location that it is facing unlike the Arlo wire-free camera, I can see that it is facing to a location that has enough light to capture colored video. To further isolate the case, please move the Arlo pro camera to the location of the Arlo wire-free camera. Then check if the Arlo pro will capture the same video or not. Check if the Arlo wire-free video will turn black and white or not as well. I look forward for your next update. Thanks again for choosing NETGEAR and have a great day! Regards, Samantha Expert ID 46372 NETGEAR Support Expert

Online Comment 1/13/2017 3:31 AM Hi Samantha, Unfortunately, both cameras are permanently mounted 13 feet up and right now it is the middle of Winter so I am unable to swap them out. What I can tell you is that the original Arlo was in the exact same position as the Arlo Pro is in now and for nearly an entire year before being replaced by the Pro and it never exhibited the same results. If the image is automatically changing to night mode due to low light levels, then what is the sense of having a night mode option to turn on and off? I think we can both agree that the threshold sensitivity on the Pro is not the same as the Arlo and it changes to night mode even when there is a sufficient light source and it is not needed. The user should have more control as to whether they want the night mode option turned on or not.

[DaveWoj]

By the way.

The light source that she refers to is in between both cameras.

I am a pro photographer, so I know about light sources, and I know that there was equal amount of light for each camera.

I don't like the way the Pro automatically forces the night vision to trigger.

[TomMac]

---

DaveWoj wrote:

By the way.

The light source that she refers to is in between both cameras.

I am a pro photographer, so I know about light sources, and I know that there was equal amount of light for each camera.

I don't like the way the Pro automatically forces the night vision to trigger.

---

Dave...

Tho the light source may be the same AND levels equal you have to remember the cameras may not be.

First you are comparing the Arlo and Pro models...there has been harware changes in both.  I have even seen two Arlo cameras ( different Hardware builds ) react a bit diferent when side by side to light .

Not to mentioned the possible +/- variance in the actual parts.

As to the auto change over, we can do anything about it as it isn't a user selectable item ...tho more b/w settings have been requested I believe.

I don't use the IR, and just use my normal outside floods which is plenty for a good pic.

[jguerdat]

Also, remember that the night vision switch is simply for the IR illuminators, not the operating mode.

[DaveWoj]

The night vision selector should say (for IR illumination only) next to it then so there is no confusion.

If what you say is true. Does that also apply to the Original Arlo?

The reason I ask is because the original Arlo will never automatically switch to night vision (black and white) unless I select night vision manually. Which I feel is how it should work.

TomMac- With just your floods on (like me) does your Arlo Pro also go to black and white night vision mode?

I have 2 150 watt floods. It's enough to easily illuminate the area so that my Original Arlo has no problem in color.

[jguerdat]

Yes, it should work the same for both original and Pro cameras.  Mine are outside so I haven't turned off night vision to see what happens recently - either something's wonky with your system or the process has changed over time and I haven't seen it since I haven't changed it.

I do have motion detector outside lights that, when they turn on, will change the recording from B&W to color.  That leads me to believe that nothing has changed in the process but certainly isn't positive proof. I'll try to remember to test tonight to see what happens to verify that one of us is right.

[DaveWoj]

I would be interested in your results when the floods turn on.

Sometime the camera will switch back and forth from B&W to Color within a few seconds like it is trying to sense the amount of light. (like when tail lights are on when backing in the garage. I understand that that might happen but on the original Arlo with no night vision selected, it always, 100% of the time stays in color. The IR really does nothing for me since I have the motion light, unless that is, an animal goes by and doesn't trigger my motion lights.

[TomMac]

TomMac- With just your floods on (like me) does your Arlo Pro also go to black and white night vision mode?

No, with the floods on, the PRO is in color as there is enough light...

Mind that I aim my cameras at a small areas, because of the small areas, the light level from the floods is high.

[DaveWoj]

I've been thinking about this again and if the night vision toggle selector is only for the IR, wouldn't it make sense to always have it on?

I mean if the camera is automatically switching to night vision on it's own, then wouldn't it make sense that the IR would come on also?

Maybe I'm missing something.

[TomMac]

---

DaveWoj wrote:

I've been thinking about this again and if the night vision toggle selector is only for the IR, wouldn't it make sense to always have it on?

I mean if the camera is automatically switching to night vision on it's own, then wouldn't it make sense that the IR would come on also?

Maybe I'm missing something.

---

Yes, because in many cases, you don't want /cant use the IR at all... 

Example is placing the camera against a window ... the IR reflects back from the glass and washes out the view. ( yes no motion detect except with Q )

But many do it to just view

Also some user don;t like the 850nm illuminators as they are slighty visable, so they turn them off for more stealth and just use local lighting.

Saves battery power if there is enough light because if toggled on, they come on reguardless of exisiting light ( in b/w mode )

[DaveWoj]

Those all make sense.

Thanks,

Dave

[AncientGeek]

Interesting discussion.  I am actually glad the night mode only controls the IR illuminators.  That was a complaint that many DropCam/NestCam users had for that platform.  The night vision and illuminators were not seperables, so it was not possible to used external illuminators and turn off the camera's IR illuminators while keeping night vision on.

Axis has a technology called "light finder" that reportedly keep their cameras equipped with this technology in color mode at very low light levels, but they require POE or other wired power and they are at a higher price point.

[DaveWoj]

Well I'm not sure if there is a problem with the pro or not. I'm hoping to get some results from other users on here.

I prefer the original Arlo for one feature only and that is that it stays in color mode at ALL light levels unless I toggle night mode manually.

I get much more detail with the color mode and ambient light. I would probably not have a problem if I didn't have flood lights triggered by a sensor and just let the night vision and IR do it's thing but I don't want to turn my floods off. They are as much of a security feature as the cameras are.

[jguerdat]

OK, tried this just now. Switching back and forth between color and B&W is a matter of threshold. That's not what I see but that's likely due to my lighting levels. In any event, the original wireless camera was in color with night vision off but the external lights on. The Pro camera remained in B&W. I'd think the light level was at least comparable to the other lighting. In neither case was the image dark but simply color vs. B&W.

[DaveWoj]

Thank you for the observation. It looks like it is working the same as mine.

I will pass that info on to tech support to show them that my case is not an isolated incident

[DaveWoj]

Here is another observation the the Arlo Pro

If what some are saying on here is true and that the camera automatically switches to night vision (black and white), then why are these 2 images different.

The first is a capture with the night vision switched off. The secong is with the night vision switched on. Both taken 1 minute apart.

Can I assume that there are 2 modes of night vision?

[AncientGeekVT]

I think what follks are saying is that the camera will automatically move the IR filter into place and shift to night mode, but the slider determines if the IR LEDs will be turned on or not.

It appears to me that your IR LEDs might be on in the second image and off in the first image.  Is the camera behind a window or in some recessed spot where the IT light would reflect or scatter a bit?  That's what it looks like to me.

[bondservant]

Semi-related to the original post - how did tech support know what image your Arlo Pro was showing, unless they have access to look at your cameras (which I thought they did not)?

[AncientGeekVT]

---

bondservant wrote:

Semi-related to the original post - how did tech support know what image your Arlo Pro was showing, unless they have access to look at your cameras (which I thought they did not)?

---

The case management system offers us the ability to upload images in evidence for our cases.  I suspect that's what he did.

[DaveWoj]

I sent a link to both images so that's how the knew the difference.

Yes the 2nd image most likely has the IR on since there is reflection off the driveway markers.

The camera is located under a soffit so there is no reflection. I just found it odd that the camera responds differently for night mode when the night vision (IR) switch is turned on.

[AncientGeekVT]

To me it actually looks like there IS some IR reflection.  The clearer image appears to have very small dark corners at the top of the image where as the lighter image appears to have very light upper corners in the image.  I suspect the IR LEDs are illuminating the trim showing in those corners and the scatter from those areas is responsible for most of the image difference.

[DaveWoj]

That's a good observation. What you are seeing is the vignetting from the silicone skin.

It is possible that when the IR comes on that the hood could be reflecting off the hood. It would be interesting to know if other users are experiencing the same thing.

I don't use the IR so I don't find it an issue, but if this is in fact happening. Then Netgear has yet another issue on their hands.

This was never an issue with the old skins because they didn't have the protective hood protruding from the edges.

[DaveWoj]

Ok. 

Actually looking at it again.

The very small area in the top right corner is the silicone hood.

The top left is the bottom of a white rain gutter, but it is about 20 feet from the camera so it shouldn't be reflecting any light from that angle.

See image below

[AncientGeekVT]

I think the scatter is the biggest issue.  Looking again at your first two photos, it looks like there is glare on the right side flaring out from that corner all the way down to the reflector on the right of the driveway.

I misspoke above with regard to the IR cut filter.  I said it moves into place at night, but I believe it moves out of place at night to allow better low light performance.

I played with one of my Pro cameras and found with the IR off, I have a completely black image and with it on, I have a well illuminated image.  I think I'd have to try this closer to sundown to get to a light level that would work either way, so I could compare the two images.

[DaveWoj]

I took 2 more images. Both have the IR turned on .

First image is the Arlo. Completely black except for the reflections off the driveway markers.The other ligts are my from my neighbors house 150 feet away.

Second image is the Pro. Pretty much the same as before but you can at least make out an image.

You may be correct as far as the hood from the silicone skin reflecting and that is what is causing the washed out image.

I can certainly trim the hood on it but since I don't use the IR I would rather just leave it the way it is.

I am most concerned about the images when my floods come on. I much prefer the arlo over the pro. Not so much because it is in color, but because it has better detail (even though overall it is a darker image)

I guess I'll just have to live withe the results I'm getting.