night vision - Netgear dragging its feet

[Obsydian]

Just did a direct swap from Pro to Pro 2, setup position identical BUT night time a disaster can barely see anything.

Turned brightness up and down - no effect.

Then on front camera turned off night vision - awesome miles better than Pro 1.

Then rear camera, tried turning off night vision disaster all black.

Is there something different in night mode Pro 1 vs Pro 2.

[Paul_FCCL]

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MichaelRo wrote:
Not sure if naïveté is the issue here. What’s the use of local/cloud storage of a video which is so dark that you can’t see anything.

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That’s not the point. Every camera brand comes with long lists of pros and cons, no one’s perfect kind, many unhappy customers for different reasons. So it’s a trade off of various features and options offered by each brand, for consumers to decide which is more/less appealing. Or else, it would be so easy.....this product doesn’t work , why buy it when I can buy one that does. For more product insight, browse the next brand’s user communities.

[Paul_FCCL]

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MelSF wrote:

...........Perhaps "naive" is a little "short-sighted"? No free cloud or local storage are peripheral extras.

The "thread" is discussing the core product (camera's night time IR) not functioning as it should. What has peripheral extras have to do with a flawed core product dysfunction?

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That’s where a list of features and pros and cons would help. Night vision, better with Nest camera, along with other features I’m sure. But wait.....I have to pay a monthly fee (forever) for cloud storage! So I would have to weigh this value with my choice. If night vision was the only issue, I would still expect it will be fixed at some point.

[Johnny290]

😨 agree with that

[MichaelRo]

Numerous threads on this topic. Several calls to customer service regarding the terrible night vision quality widely reported. Has anyone received any concrete solution or plan from Netgear? Otherwise add me to the list of people returning this junk.

[MichaelRo]

Had a very frustrating conversation with "customer support".  felt I needed a legal degree to get through it.  Basically, anyone who buys a Pro 2 camera should assume you're probably/maybe/who knows getting a product Netgear knows is defective and they can't tell you meaningfully if its a design issue or a defective isolated item.

This is a joke.  Anyone get more meaninful info???

i have a combo of arlo pro and pro 2 camera.

11:15:18 PM

the pro 2 cameras have very poor night vision.

11:15:27 PM

I have examples of the same location with Pro and Pro2 cameras.

11:15:41 PM

i've reported this back in Nov and on several subsequent customer service contacts.

11:16:05 PM

was promised that a firmware update was imminent to fix it, but that never happened.

11:16:21 PM

I need to know once and for all because i need to decide if i'm returning this product before the return period ends.

11:16:51 PM

there are numerous threads on this topic as well on the customer boards. but no response from netgear

11:17:39 PM

As I understand, night vision on your Arlo Pro 2 cameras do not seem to work as you expected. Did you try to remove the cameras from the account and re-add them?

11:18:30 PM

Me

yes.

11:19:02 PM

i don't see why this would change the night vision quality

11:19:20 PM

again, this is widely reported issue with customers on the boards.

11:19:37 PM

Removing and re-syncing the cameras usually helps in correcting night vision on the cameras. Do you have a case number from your previous contacts?

11:20:19 PM

Me

i have no idea.

11:20:38 PM

i didn't know i need to keep it

11:20:45 PM

can i show you the examples.

11:20:51 PM

the contrast is all off. and brightenss is terrible.

11:21:02 PM

way way worse than the Pro1

11:23:04 PM

Ilyn I

Sorry for the delayed response,,

11:23:40 PM

I checked it with the team and we cannot confirm any information regarding the firmware update.

11:25:06 PM

If you they are still within store warranty. I suggest you have them replaced.

11:25:39 PM

Me

replaced?

11:25:46 PM

you can't even tell me if this is an isolated problem or a recurrent issue?

11:26:04 PM

you don't even want to see the image i'm talking about? i'm not getting the impression this is being taken seriously

11:26:43 PM

if its a software/firmware issue, then returning it wouldn't make a difference.

11:27:38 PM

if its a hardware issue, then why not disclose this? you shipped all the cameras in my set with the same defect then?

11:28:17 PM

Yes, we are getting reports regarding the poor night vision quality on the Arlo Pro 2 cameras. Since you are done with the troubleshooting, there seems to be a hardware issue on the camera. And you mentioned earlier that they are still within the store warranty, then I suggest have the cameras replaced by the store.

11:28:30 PM

Me

i need to know if this is a production issue or a design issue.

11:29:01 PM

you won't tell me?

11:29:07 PM

why would i replace the camera with another with the same defect, if this is a design issue

11:29:25 PM

i'm confused by the secrecy

11:29:40 PM

That I cannot really confirm. There is no information disseminated to us regarding the issue on the night vision of the Arlo Pro 2 cameras.

11:31:44 PM

Me

can you at least confirm or deny if there are camera being shipped without this issue.

11:32:23 PM

I will forward that inquiry to the team, But as for now, we really have no information about it and our team can't even tell it at the moment. We will need to consult the issue with the Engineering department.

11:34:39 PM

Me

they told me they were consulting with Engineering in Dec 2017

11:35:06 PM

in Jan 2018, I was told a "briefing" was coming in 2 days on a firmware fix for this issue and to "stay tuned".

11:35:32 PM

its now almost Feb 2018.

11:35:37 PM

Can you send a link informing about the firmware update ?

11:36:11 PM

Kindly attach it here.

11:36:20 PM

Me

I don't have a firmware update.

11:36:37 PM

your customer service told me about it.

[MichaelRo]

fyi.  radio silence.  customer service now suggests returning the Arlo Pro 2.  can't tell me if buying another will make a difference.  software or hardware issue.  Told engineering is "aware" but can't share anything else.

[jguerdat]

There's been extensive dialogue here about this. Whether you're on the side of being useless or useful, the night vision of the P2 is "different" from the P1. It depends on how you've set up the cameras, whether there's external lighting, the distance you're trying to get battery-operated LEDs to light up a scene, etc.  There's also the issue of the size of the sensor and the number of pixels in that size - like cell phones that also use small sensors, low-light capture sucks since the individual cells in the sensor are smaller in size and the number of photons hitting a cell is limited by both the numbe available in low light as well as how many can hit a cell.

There are things you can do to help, such as IR or normal external lighting, not trying to light up a whole dark backyard, not having the camera illumination hitting nearby reflective surfaces (walls, etc. cause the autoexposure to darken since there's too much bounce-back from that surface), etc.

[MichaelRo]

Thanks for the post. However were these things actually downgraded compared to Arlo 1?? There are extensive posts with folks showing the same camera location with vastly better image quality with an Arlo 1 vs 2. If this was downgraded and requires you to have external lighting etc (which incidentally I have from the street), seems it shouldn’t be sold as higher image quality at a higher price.

[jguerdat]

Not downgraded but different, especially the 1080p sensor. One can certainly argue that changes could have been made during development but we have no access to that process.

[JamesC · Accepted solution]

Arlo Pro 2 ups the game by introducing 1080p resolution, a wider field of view compared to previous generation cameras, along with a host of new features that include versatile power options, 2-way audio, and advanced motion detection with activity zones.  All of the above is done while maintaining the things our users love and have become synonymous with Arlo:  Simple wire-free setup, Weather-resistant ruggedness, Optional 24/7 continuous video monitoring, local backup storage, and up to 7 days of free cloud storage.  Not to mention, Pro2 is backwards compatible with all previous generation accessories and base stations. 
 
The same applies at night time, where in each frame, a user can literally see more in every shot.  By upgrading our image technology, we also upgraded our motion and night vision capabilities.
 
Some users have requested that we increase the overall “brightness” of our cameras.  While seeing brighter, albeit subjective, is a valid request - simply making images brighter may not always apply to the scene that is being recorded.  Every user’s setup is different, as well as the type of scene and image being captured.  One fix for all situations can often result in tradeoffs in other aspects of the image quality.  As an example, simply going brighter can result in oversaturated images dependent on the user’s scene.
 
What we did focus on addressing however, was overall image quality during high motion.  Especially in security driven use cases where the action being captured could be a vandal at your front door trying to run away, we wanted to enhance the overall quality in those situations.  Over the weekend, we released a FW update that reduces the amount of compression when fast motion is detected.  This results in better quality videos, with minimal change in overall file size being allocated to capture that motion event. 
 
Arlo aims to up the game in image quality with each new generation of product, and we know our users will enjoy literally seeing more in every shot, seeing more details, as well as crisper video even in fast motion scenes. 
 

-Arlo Development Team

[archon810]

This answer does nothing to address the actual issue with night vision here - haziness and lack of detail. We're not asking for increased brightness, we're asking for a picture where you can make out details like you could on the first Pro that didn't suffer from Pro 2's haziness.

This is what we expect https://community.netgear.com/t5/Arlo-Pro-2/Pro-2-Night-Vision-Poor/m-p/1430435#M2071, but this is what we sometimes get: https://community.netgear.com/t5/Arlo-Pro-2/Pro-2-Night-Vision-Poor/m-p/1430035#M2043 and here https://community.netgear.com/t5/Arlo-Pro-2/Pro-2-Night-Vision-Poor/m-p/1406040#M1105.

[JehovasFitness]

Talk about being willfully unaware of the problem. No worries though, I just returned 2 Pro 2s and when people ask me for suggestions I tell them to stick with the Pro 1

[JehovasFitness]

I will say though that I do have a Pro 2 mounted and the ability to detect motion. In the distance during the day seems way better than Pro 1. I can have an alert at motion from at least 50-60 feet away with a car at about 80% sensitivity.

[Bof]

Here is a side by side Pro vs Pro 2. Something is def diffrent. Night vision is darker on Pro2. Any Idea why? Same settings same room. A foot away from one another.

[MichaelRo]

Netgear really is sinking to a new low.  There is a widespread problem here which is reported over and over on these boards (as well as other sites).  Rather than address it and propose a solution, there has been a recurrent and systematic effort to cover-up the issue.

Poor night vision (unusably dark images) in comparison to Netgears OWN prior product is the issue.  I haven't seen anyone complaining about motion resolution.  Complaints about this have been showingup since November 2017.  When pressed, customer service at that time even said they are aware of the issue and their engineers are "working on a fix".  No answer.  Repeated contacts to customer service yielded similar responses in the following months with promises that a "firmware fix for this issue is coming next week", etc.  never happened.  Just this week Customer Service told me that I can just return and replace the units for another Pro 2.  I asked if this implies there is a hardware vs software issue (obviously software doesn't change with a return), and they said they "cannot tell me".  When pressed further, they assured me they were going to speak to engineering and get back within 24hrs. That was 3 days ago.  Then this post by JamesC which is mostly a marketing pitch for the camera and then addresses something entirely unrelated to customer concerns.

Either there is a coordinated effort to cover-up a major design problem with this device and swinde customers....or just frankly there is a disconnect in understanding.  Not sure which is worse.

[Bof]

Just tried it out last night. Purchased the new 5 camera bundle set from Costco to add to the 6 Pros I have. Will continue to test and see if the Pro2 is worth the higher price. Was dissappointed last night. Wanted to be blown away with increased performance and was not.

[Somerset3]

To expand on my post earlier today, on another thread about the poor night vision.

In November i purchased a hub plus two Pro 2 cameras, primarily to monitor activity around our koi pond and in the woodlands behind our house. Both daytime and night vision were superb and we decided to buy two more cameras, in January, to cover other areas. The night vision performance on both of these was terrible; foggy, unfocused and dimmer. 

After wasting hours on the help line, we exchanged the cameras on Monday. The two replacement ones are just as bad!!  The firmware update that took place last night has NOT improved the night vision performance at all.

I cannot understand how two Pro 2 cameras can be great in every respect and the next 4 terrible!!

I have demonstrated side by side comparisons at night to the 'help' line, but no help has been forthcoming. Does anyone have a number here in the USA to talk to?

[Bof]

Another example of the problem top pic is Arlo pro bottom os Pro2. Same exact zoom. Clarity is much worse on arlo pro2

[skysigns]

I want to purchase the Arlo Pro 2, I had the Arlo Pro but returned it in hopes for 1080 p cameras ( pro 1 picture quality day or night pretty decent). Following this thread I can’t purchase it yet,.
I believe netgear just sent out a firmware update for the cameras 1 or 2 days ago. Has anyone installed the new firmware yet? If so can you let us know if fixed the nighttime video quality, pictures would be terrific.

[Bof]

All of the pictures that I have atached to my replys have been from a Pro2 that had the most recent firmware update. Does not apear to have improved night vision.

[Eric182]

My night vision has improved with the last firmware update

[MelSF]

My Arlo Pro 2 night time images have not improved since the firmware update !!! They are still very grainy and poor!!! 

Also.... I have my 4 cameras plugged into power. Two of them last night give me a warning that they are not charging, and that I have to unplug them and re plug them. How can that happent to two diferent cameras at the same time??? !!!

Do not buy this product. Look through the threads! Customer service is non existent, and they ignore this problem like the plague!

[jrh1194]

I did notice a slight improvement in night time images after the update. Not a dramatic improvement, but it has gotten better. 

[Johnny290]

Me to

[treebuilder]

I have this exact problem. 

I bought the Arlo Pro 2 two-camera package over the weekend.  I put one on my front porch, one on my rear deck.

The one on the front porch is powered, and fine.

The one on the rear deck is on battery, and had great night vision for about two days.

Then, suddenly, all the night vision shots are faint and washed out.

Nothing changed between the great night vision period and the washed-out night vision.  The ambient light is the same, as is the camera angle.

If I can't figure it out, I may need to return it soon, because it's impossible to see any detail in the washed-out night vision shots.