Any Positive Feedback? Also Questions

[Minlas]

Hello Arlo Ultra users,

I currently just bought 3 Arlo Security Lights and a solar panel to test with the Ultras. I paused on pulling the trigger on a 4 pack of Ultras as a friend told me to check these forums. I realize that forums are where everyone goes when it comes to issues. With wireless security cams that is often underlying WiFi connectivity issues, slow ISP, or that received the inevitable lemons ends up etc.

However I have to admit I haven’t seen a lot of satisfied users in these particular forums, which again I realize that usually it’s the people with issues that are on forums but still usually there are a quite a few more “mine is working great responses.” I also know it isn’t well received to be the “mine is working great guy” in threads where someone is having issues but given the negative is all I have seen and in this thread I am requesting it ...Is there some of you that are pleased with the product that could please sound off?

Issues I am aware of:
I know about the current huge obvious issue is local storage/playback on phones (versus needing to remove the card) which is supposed to be coming at the end of this year.

As I also understand it there is a current issue where if the internet (not WiFi or the local lan) goes out then the cameras won’t record even if they are set to local storage only? This is of course heinous as though I have a stable ISP it robs battery operated security cameras of one of their inherent advantages. Is this being worked on as it is surely just a firmware/low level settings bug as logically of course the internet isn’t required for it to record locally via WiFi to it’s hub.

Personally when it comes to security equipment like security cameras, nvrs, (my router and modem as well) etc I always place the AC components on their own uninterruptible power supplies (the house has power outage rollover as well) as they are low power and I don’t want them going offline just because power or the internet was down.

Are there other issues that I didn’t mention?

I believe the combination of max specs listed/anyone has tested for storage is class 10 UHS-3 V90 256GB? Has anyone tried the 400 or 512GB? Currently looking at SanDisk 256GB Extreme MicroSDXC UHS-I Memory Card with Adapter - C10, U3, V30, 4K, A2, Micro SD - SDSQXA1-256G-GN6MA (Currently sold out.)

Using the Arlo solar panels how many notifications/recordings etc (whatever metric is most familiar) are you seeing and the camera remains fully charged? I realize there are tons of variables involved like WiFi strength/distance/interference, input solar energy, length of activity etc.

Each ultra hub can support ten cameras? What sort of relationship have you seen between number of cameras, card size and storage time? Again I realize lots of variables like activity per camera etc.

Thank you for any and all input/answers/feedback.

[Minlas]

Should I break this into the component questions as maybe it’s a case of TLDR?

[StephenB]

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@Minlas wrote:
Hello Arlo Ultra users,
.” I also know it isn’t well received to be the “mine is working great guy” in threads where someone is having issues but given the negative is all I have seen and in this thread I am requesting it ...Is there some of you that are pleased with the product that could please sound off?

FWIW, I have three Ultras that are working well.

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@Minlas wrote:
As I also understand it there is a current issue where if the internet (not WiFi or the local lan) goes out then the cameras won’t record even if they are set to local storage only?

I haven't seen that here, and don't believe it is the case. The cameras should record to the microSD card even if the base cannot reach the cloud.   Note you cannot set the Ultra's to local storage only.

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@Minlas wrote:
Personally when it comes to security equipment like security cameras, nvrs, (my router and modem as well) etc I always place the AC components on their own uninterruptible power supplies.
.

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I do that as well. My router, ONT (equivalent to modem), and Arlo base stations are all connected to UPS.

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@Minlas wrote:

Are there other issues that I didn’t mention?

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Plenty of issues reported here with geofencing, homekit, and smarthings integration (features that I don't use).

Missed notifications/recordings sometimes do happen to me, and there occasionally corrupted video.  Sometimes one of my base stations has gone off-line with no explanation (though that particular base is beta hardware, which might be a factor).

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@Minlas wrote:

I believe the combination of max specs listed/anyone has tested for storage is class 10 UHS-3 V90 256GB? Has anyone tried the 400 or 512GB? Currently looking at SanDisk 256GB Extreme MicroSDXC UHS-I Memory Card with Adapter - C10, U3, V30, 4K, A2, Micro SD - SDSQXA1-256G-GN6MA (Currently sold out.)

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I use a Samsung 128 GB card (UHS-3).  I haven't tested anything higher.

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@Minlas wrote:

Each ultra hub can support ten cameras? What sort of relationship have you seen between number of cameras, card size and storage time? Again I realize lots of variables like activity per camera etc.

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Yes, but only five can stream simultaneously.  I'd suggest two base stations if you want more than 5.

I haven't checked on retention on the microSD cards lately, so I am not sure about storage time. 

 Arlo says typical recording is 5 minutes/per day per camera.  At 3 mbps per camera, you end up with about 1.3 GB total storage per day at that activity level.  

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@Minlas wrote:

Using the Arlo solar panels how many notifications/recordings etc (whatever metric is most familiar) are you seeing and the camera remains fully charged? I realize there are tons of variables involved like WiFi strength/distance/interference, input solar energy, length of activity etc.

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I have one Ultra solar panel.  At the moment the camera is making about 40 recordings a day (perhaps 10 minutes a day).  But it's hard to know the actual streaming rate because it is using cloud activity zones.  The panel keeps the camera charged most of the time.  The panel won't charge the camera when it's below freezing, so when we have an extended cold snap I do need to charge it with AC power occasionally.  I live near Boston.

[Minlas]

To me your FWIW is worth probably more than you assume as while it is just one user of many it’s also three cameras and frankly good to hear amongst what seems to be a myriad of bad experiences. Maybe this forum has built in polls? Thus a more balanced perspective could be gained.

Like you I also don’t plan to use it for geofencing, homekit, or smarthings integration as well as I am also unlikely to use the smart plan features as well. I’ve owned POE systems, fixed, indoor WiFi?(always ended up wiring the indoor WiFi cams) at various houses and businesses. I say that as to say that after awhile you know what you want/will use out of a system and also the opportunity costs that come with each type of setup. For example constant recording and searching for the desired footage vs maybe missing the moment all together with pixel, pir motion etc. Having “instant” alerts and thus being able to respond to a situation in which expediency will make all the difference vs having constant alerts that you end up ignoring or turning off.
Redundancy usually is the way I go and I would hazard my own expectations are lower than most especially if discussing a proposed feature involves several companies trying to integrate each other’s “smart” features. This is however my first foray into wireless outdoor security cameras.

As for missed notifications/recordings I *think* this is common across motion activated setups much less smart setups (if you are using the people detect etc smart features) and also more common with outdoor and even more so wireless systems?

This is the first I had learned of corrupted video being an issue. I had just postulated that the video was wrote to small internal buffer memory on the camera and then transmitted to the hub (hopefully encrypted) and then only saved to the hubs storage option if the parity, checksum, crc matched and if not retransmitted. However maybe it just streams and thus susceptible to interference or perhaps the issue lies with writing to the card? Corrupted data writes to cards *seems* more anecdotally common that say USB external HDs but of course the “usual” usage scenarios and location/temperature etc also is varied for cards and hard disks.

Which base station is beta hardware?

Thanks for the input on your card and the info that a hub can really only stream 5 cameras (especially if they have no internal buffers.) SteveDoes YouTube channel video review on the Ultra says he was getting about 30 days of recordings for 2 cameras on a 32GB card. For me if I can get 30 days with 5 cameras and a 256GB card that is more than plenty.

At 5m30sec into https://youtu.be/lNVAjt72Leg
is where I had heard the no recordings if your internet was down. He mentions notifications first but then also recordings. Hopefully we can get someone on the forums to test it to see if maybe his experience was a fluke. Or perhaps it was an issue that has now been addressed or if not then maybe we can get it fixed as it obviously shouldn’t be a thing.

Thanks as well for the info on your solar panel experience/usage. It’s good to know that when it’s below freezing the solar panel stops charging as heading into winter that could have led me to believe I was having an issue somewhere that is just the nature of the equipment.

I will expand some of the topics I asked about in this thread into several different threads for a couple reasons. To make specific information found here more accessible to others searching for specific topics that I brought up. Hopefully to also get more feedback. I also believe people are less likely to reply if they don’t have answers to all the questions asked even if they know quite a bit about some of those asked. Thanks again for taking the time to add your experience on all the topics.

[Minlas]

I realize that forums are where everyone goes when it comes to issues. With wireless security cams that is often underlying WiFi connectivity issues, slow ISP, or that received the inevitable lemons ends up etc.

However I have to admit I haven’t seen a lot of satisfied users in these particular forums, which again I realize that usually it’s the people with issues that are on forums but still usually there are a quite a few more “mine is working great responses.” I also know it isn’t well received to be the “mine is working great guy” in threads where someone is having issues but given the negative is all I have seen and in this thread I am requesting it ...Is there some of you that are pleased with the product that could please sound off? Also is there a way to make a poll?

[RafS]

Hey there.  Just replying regarding the SD card.  I ended up putting a SanDisk Extreme 512GB card in the hub and it's working great.  Wasn't sure about the maximum you can use but I figured if it wouldn't work, I could use it for something else.. I've only had these cameras for 10 days so I'm fairly new to the whole Arlo thing..

[Phoney49]

I originally bought 2 Pro 3 cameras. I wanted to add a camera at the back of the house, so I add an Ultra with a base.
I am impressed with the camera hardware. The Ultra has better microphones and sound pickup is excellent. It also has slightly wider FOV and supposedly better quality, but I can't tell any difference there.
The interaction between cameras and base and internet and app is not simple, but works surprisingly well. There are a few bugs but I have found support responsive. If I expand again, I will use Pro 3's. Cheaper and only real difference is the sound, which is not a big deal to me.
I have router and 1 base on battery and generator. Works great. No blips in coverage. You have to fiddle with placement to get the motion detection working well, but in the end it does. I am a happy customer.
As you said, this forum is for questions and problems, not for happy customers, so negative is predominant here.

[Minlas]

Glad to hear you are enjoying your setup Phoney49.
I know to get the full 4K out of the Ultras vs only 1080P you have to either pay extra onto the 1yr free service for 4K uploads or watch remove the microSD/USB (and later this year hopefully via the app) and watch directly off of it.
You probably already know this but just making sure you are seeing the full 4K version and still think there no quality to be gained in video quality in the Ultra vs Pro 3. Does this include trying to “zoom” in on something as usually higher resolution helps with a screenshot and “zooming” to specific area.

[Phoney49]

1. The Pro 3 is advertised as 2k, vs 4k on the Ultra.
2. The Pro 3 stores 2k in the cloud without a premium (at least it is labeled that way). I perceive the quality as slightly better in the cloud than the Ultra without a premium.
3. The Ultra purports to stream in 4k, and I can't perceive the difference from 2k. Perhaps that is just me.
4. Ultra comes with 1 year cloud vs 3 months for Pro 3.
5. I do store locally, but don't look at them because it is too inconvenient.

Both cameras are great, I just don't perceive the value of paying extra for the Ultra. Where I live it is 50% more.

[Minlas]

Solid points all Phoney49. I assumed that for example watching on our phones on smaller screen and lower resolutions that 4K might be tough to discern from even 1080p much less 2K. I also can’t imagine anyone bothering to pull out the microSD card constantly to look at the footage.

However if something does occur that one might want a security camera for and you need to look at full resolution on a larger screen to try and discern detail is what I was asking about. As that is a concern as of course that is when (at least to me) a security camera is the most valuable. So I’m not sure if I have your answer on that part, that is specifically, if you have ever looked at and compared full resolution video files on a larger and/or higher resolution screen or tried to “zoom” in and seen any difference. Again this is with the understanding that my scenario is excluding streaming to a phone, looking at the current 1080p uploads the Ultra has without additional fees but more like if you were pulling full resolution footage to submit to the police etc.

[Phoney49]

I guess I can't help, as though I have video in 2k and 4k stored locally, I have no 4k screen too display it. My PC is HD, my phone is QHD. My TV is 4k, but playing the Arlo footage there would be too difficult for me.

[StephenB]

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@Minlas wrote:

Which base station is beta hardware?

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I was fortunately selected for the Ultra beta (before the cameras were released).  Later on I added a production Ultra system.  So I have 2 VMB5000 base stations and three Ultra cameras.  One of the bases and one of the cameras came from the beta.

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@Minlas wrote:

This is the first I had learned of corrupted video being an issue. I had just postulated that the video was wrote to small internal buffer memory on the camera and then transmitted to the hub (hopefully encrypted) and then only saved to the hubs storage option if the parity, checksum, crc matched and if not retransmitted. However maybe it just streams and thus susceptible to interference or perhaps the issue lies with writing to the card? Corrupted data writes to cards *seems* more anecdotally common that say USB external HDs but of course the “usual” usage scenarios and location/temperature etc also is varied for cards and hard disks.

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The camera streams to the base using a closed wifi system (which is encrypted).  The base then can store the video locally to the microSD card, and it also streams it to the Arlo cloud.  If cloud activity zones are used, then the cloud analyzes the video to see if it is in-zone (and kept) or out-of-zone (and discarded).  Smart classification (person, animal, etc) is also done there.

Loss anywhere on the connection path can result in corrupted/pixelated video.  Obviously hardware issues and firmware bugs can also create loss, so there are a lot of potential causes.  There definitely are some cases posted here where the video on the card is fine, but the video in the cloud is corrupted.   

Arlo hasn't said if whether they use retransmission or FEC to deal with loss - so there is some mystery there.

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@Minlas wrote:
I’ve owned POE systems, fixed, indoor WiFi?(always ended up wiring the indoor WiFi cams) at various houses and businesses. 

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I don't have much experience with POE cameras, but the ones I have seen can use higher bitrates than the ultra ( which uses 1 mbps AVC for 1080p and 3 mpbs HEVC for 4K).  The relatively low bit rate does affect the picture quality - it would be nice if there was a higher bitrate option, but unfortunately there isn't.  But the picture quality I am getting is good enough for my purposes, so this isn't that big a deal for me.

There are some advantages in AC powering the Ultra btw - there is a 3-second lookback buffer that is used when motion is detected.  Activity zones are also processed in the camera (not the cloud) when it is powered.  CVR would require AC power (battery drain would be too great). 

The solar panel trickle-charges the camera, so you don't get those advantages from solar charging.

[brh]

@Minlas,

I'll keep this reply brief as others have answered most of your questions already. I have 7 Ultra cameras, 1 Pro3 camera and a couple of Pro2 cameras. I love them all and am not having any problems that I know of.

Brian

[Mjbeuke]

@Minlas

I’m largely happy with my system. I’ve got 2x Ultras and a VMB5000 SmartHub, 5x Pro 2’s and a a VMB4000 Base Station, 5x security lights and with 2 Bridges....

Everything works 100% with the Ultras, lights, and 90% with the Pro 2’s....

My only issues lie with the Pro 2’s on AC power have an issue that’s been known for a while now that create choppy/glitchy videos for only 10 seconds that get recorded to the cloud.... they’re fine on the local recording so it’s a matter of some sort of firmware update to where the cloud recordings are fixed.

I had many issues for a while but most have recently been resolved by Arlo. I just installed the Video Doorbell that was just released Monday and it’s working great!

Overall satisfied with the Arlo ecosystem. I think all battery-powered options have their issues, and I feel like Arlo has the beat hardware and subscription features.

[Minlas]

@Phoney49

In my experience with various 4K videos versus 1080p if I take a screenshot it’s easy to tell the difference on even my 1080p PC monitors (I have a few with a range of screen widths and resolutions) as ability to “zoom” in factor is way higher. This helps when trying to make out say a distant face, license plate etc. So for me it isn’t about video playback as much as “zooming in” (I hate saying that.)

But yeah if it looks all the same to you on your playback sources then roger that and no worries. Hopefully there are a few people with the Pro2s Pro 3s and Ultras that have compared the full resolution videos/screenshots. Like you, I often find 4K footage doesn’t look better or much better simply played on any 1080p display.

In my opinion for monitoring most rooms/indoor situations unless you are covering quite a bit larger space, -maybe- like the length of considerable sized garage, a 4K camera is overkill. I think high(er) resolution security cameras mostly shine when you are trying to resolve detail in more distant objects, subjects etc. If I recall correctly it was from 30ft+ that the YouTube reviewers were able to only discern a license plate with higher resolutions that they couldn’t at 1080p. Of course all that is a very general look at the subject as it doesn’t account the bitrates used, optics quality, sensor size/quality, lighting levels/sources along with front side back lighting, angles of the subject etc. That is also comparing 4K to 1080p and not 2k, though a few reviews say think have included the Pro 3 in the license plate “tests.”

[Minlas]

@StephenB

The way you describe the data flow process is as I had imagined it but you clarified that it was indeed encrypted as I mentioned and of course hoped but wasn’t clear on.

Two things you mentioned:
The video corruption issue I have quite a few questions about but I don’t want to highjack my own thread and it should have its own.

Also the implications of your described data flow that is also how I imagined goes into the thread of why all the YouTube reviewers are finding the no internet issue and better discussed there of course.

You couldn’t be more right on all 1080p, 2K and 4K video not being the same because of bit rate much less a myriad of other factors that I mentioned some of in my reply to Phoney49.

[Minlas]

@brh @Mjbeuke
It’s good to hear you both have large Arlo systems working well.

@Mjbeuke
I have heard a few times of local recordings being fine for I believe several of the Arlo models while the cloud version is corrupt.

I have a 4 camera Ultra system on the way now to go with the 3 Arlo security lights and 1 ultra solar panel. Should allow me to assess them enough to figure out how many more cameras, solar panels, outdoor power cables I want to use.