Upgrade to Pro 4 or Ultra 2? Or punt...?

[Zzzzzzzzzz]

My almost 6 years old Pro 2's are mostly working fine (knock on wood) and set up wired. I was going to wait until they stopped working before replacing with some sort of Arlo. But the EOL fiasco forced me to start thinking about what to do. 

I purchased sets Ultra 2 XL and Pro 4 XL at really good prices from Costco but would need to purchase many expensive charging cables and a solar panel. Plus adding an annual subscription. A LOT of money all together.

So, I am debating as to whether to replace my Pro 2s now and with which ones? Or wait until Pro 2's die and perhaps the technology has changed more? But newer is not necessarily better--oftentimes newer is worse nowadays....

Thoughts on Ultra 2 vs Pro 4? Which one seems to be more stable? Reliable? Robust hardware to withstand harsh desert weather? They both seem to have a lot of issues and complaints posted on this community and Costco.com, although I guess that is to be expected as people come here to discuss issues.

Also, I still have the old Library version of the app on Android, which I am used to and mostly like. I've read references to a new "Feed" version of the app, and it sounds to me to be more problematic. 

What do people think about Feed vs Library versions of the app?

Finally, the poor Arlo Customer Support is a concern. I also have Ring, and at least I can reach a human easily. Ring Support is not what it used to be either, but in the past, they quickly replaced devices that had issues, which is included in their Plus annual plan. But not all Ring cameras have pre-roll/foresight/look-back so not really useful as security cameras. I think the Pro 2's are great hardware but not sure if Arlo has maintained the quality and innovation in the Pro 4's and Ultra 2s. 

Does anyone think there is a risk that Arlo will go out of business?

It's all been causing me a fair amount of anxiety since the EOL was announced, as I don't want to be without reliable security cameras. Any insights would be greatly appreciated!

Arlo Pro 2 Arlo Pro 4 Wireless Security Camera  Arlo Ultra 2 Wireless Security Camera 

[ksss11]

I have the exact same question! I just ran off sheets of accessories/pricing/specs to compare. The new ones are out of stock so do not know if our discount will apply for backorders. 

Hope someone with knowledge replies soon

[StephenB]

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@Zzzzzzzzzz wrote:

So, I am debating as to whether to replace my Pro 2s now and with which ones? Or wait until Pro 2's die and perhaps the technology has changed more? But newer is not necessarily better--oftentimes newer is worse nowadays....

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The Pro 2 EoL date is 1 Jan 2025, with security updates provided 12 months after that.

If you are happy with your current performance, then I suggest just waiting.  You'll miss out on the EoL sales, but there will likely be other reasonable sales in the future, and they'll almost certainly introduce new camera models over the next 18-30 months.

[Zzzzzzzzzz]

@StephenB  Thanks for your reply. Yeah, you're right. Hopefully another two years of functioning Pro 2's, as long as the hardware doesn't fail. The app has been more and more buggy starting last year, and I was wondering if it is because they were starting to de-prioritize the legacy cameras even before the EOL announcement.

Plus, Arlo seemed to be discounting extra the bundles at Costco. In one of the bundles on clearance, the Ultra 2 XL's ended up being for  $150 each camera, including base station, mounts, and one charging cable. And the Pro 4 XL's ended up being $100 each, including base station, mounts, and one charging cable. So, I bought them just in case.... but can return them at any time. I haven't even opened them because I didn't want to deal with all the hassle of changing out all my cameras, getting accessories, testing everything out. It takes a fair amount of time, cost, and headache to set up new tech....

[Zzzzzzzzzz]

@ksss11  I saw in one of your older posts, you were asking about base stations in the current bundles. My understanding is that the Pro 4 cameras and the Ultra 2's can also connect with the older Pro 2 base stations.

Also, the Pro 4 (and Pro 5) cameras can also connect with directly to wifi without a base station, but of course, then you won't have local storage as a backup if that's important to you.

Are you a Costco member? Any new cameras I get will be from Costco because they can be returned at any time (extra insurance in case of issues). Costco has Pro 4 and Ultra 2 bundles that include the base station, mounts, and one charging cable. The Ultra 2 bundle is currently on sale, but it ends today. They reguarly go on sale at Costco, and they carry some other Arlo stuff (e.g., Pro 3 spotlight and Essential XL (standalone, no base station). 

One thing that I did read earlier today is that the Ultra 2's are PIR even when wired. I didn't realize this. While the Pro 4's have pixel-based detection when wired. My experience with PIR is limited to the Ring PIR cameras, which suck in terms of motion detection. So, I don't know if that's just Ring's implementation of PIR or in general. Supposedly PIR detection is less prone to false triggers (e.g., leaves and shadows). But my Ring PIR cameras identify animals as people; miss actual people identification; and sometimes just don't record people walking right in front of it. Hopefully Ultra 2's are better than that?

I think the Pro 2's are pixel based when wired because they trigger on just about everything, including shadows and leaves. I would prefer too much triggering as opposed to missing key movement. The Pro 4 would be pixel-based when wired. Also pixel-based has motion detection up to 50 ft, while PIR is supposedly around 25 ft. It depends on the distance you need to monitor. However, the downside is Pro 4 is only 2k video as compared to Ultra 2, which is 4k.

Are your Pro and Pro 2's starting to fail? 

[StephenB]

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@Zzzzzzzzzz wrote:

I think the Pro 2's are pixel based when wired because they trigger on just about everything, including shadows and leaves. 

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No, they use PIR even when wired.  FWIW, my cameras (including Ultras) trigger on moving shadows, especially in the summer.

[ksss11]

I forgot to check this thread before I ordered...Crud...We ordered from Arlo because of the discount and accessories. It was less expensive that way. We went with the Ultra2 (4Camera system with 2 SmartHubs and then 2 add-on cams). We might not use them until the pro2s go out , but we are so excited for un-pixelated zooming and videos.

Not being technically inclined and the fact that we will never, ever, never use our phones for the system, just made sense to kind of stick with what we have learned with Pro/Pro2 system.

Thanks for the advice! Love this forum as it is such a big help!

[Zzzzzzzzzz]

@StephenB  Thanks for correcting my understanding of Pro 2's. That explains why they aren't getting the range of motion detection that my Arlo Q through a glass window is getting. I really like the motion detection distance capability of the Arlo Q.

Do you have both the Ultra 2 and Pro 4?

In your experience, does Ultra 2 PIR have pretty much the same leaf/shadow triggers as Pro 4?

Are the 4k videos from the Ultra 2 notably clearer than 2K videos from Pro 4?

Do the 4k videos allow you to zoom in to see details like license plates and peple's faces? How about 2K videos?

Do activity zones perform similarly for PIR (Ultra 2) and  pixel-based cameras (Pro 4)?

Does person detection perform similarly for PIR (Ultra 2) and pixel-based cameras (Pro 4)?

Thanks!

[StephenB]

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@Zzzzzzzzzz wrote:

Do you have both the Ultra 2 and Pro 4?

One Pro 4, and several Ultras (among other cameras).  No Ultra 2s.

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@Zzzzzzzzzz wrote:

Does person detection perform similarly for PIR (Ultra 2) and pixel-based cameras (Pro 4)?

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The Pro 4 is not pixel based, it is PIR (like the Ultra 2).  The only cameras that use pixel detection are the Arlo Q and the Arrlo Essential Indoor models.

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@Zzzzzzzzzz wrote:

Do the 4k videos allow you to zoom in to see details like license plates and peple's faces? How about 2K videos?

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License plates are hit-or-miss on all Arlo cameras.  One aspect is that you need 100 pixels per foot to get clear rendering.  (Note most license plates are about 1 foot across).  Arlo cameras have a wide field of view, and even at 4K the pixels per foot drops below 100 at a pretty short distance.  Lighting is another aspect.  Glare will result in underexposed licenses in many nightime situations.  Motion blur is a third issue, the cameras run at a fairly low frame rate, and there definitely is motion blur.

Rendering of faces are of course also also depends on the head size (in pixels), lighting, and motion.  But generally is less demanding. 

Unfortunately, Arlo uses low bitrates for recordings, and compression artifacts definitely get in the way.  I've often suggested having an option to get higher bitrates with less retention (say 3x the bitrate with 10 days retention), but I don't think they get it.

Anyway, I find the Pro 4 to be fine for faces, though I don't often zoom out the recordings.

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@Zzzzzzzzzz wrote:

In your experience, does Ultra 2 PIR have pretty much the same leaf/shadow triggers as Pro 4?

Do activity zones perform similarly for PIR (Ultra 2) and  pixel-based cameras (Pro 4)?

Does person detection perform similarly for PIR (Ultra 2) and pixel-based cameras (Pro 4)?

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Yes.

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@Zzzzzzzzzz wrote:

Are the 4k videos from the Ultra 2 notably clearer than 2K videos from Pro 4?

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Yes when zoomed in.  Note I am mostly using a small phone ( iphone 12 mini), so the screen size also plays into this.

 

[Zzzzzzzzzz]

@StephenB  Thanks!

Are your Pro 4's connected to a power adapter or only battery? According to this article, motion detection is pixel based when wired.

https://kb.arlo.com/en_US/583

The activity zones on my legacy cameras have never worked--maybe because I don't have a subscription. I have locations where the trees and bushes are constantly triggering. So, I was hoping that working activity zones to omit those areas might cut down on that. However, I do read about a lot of complaints that the activity zones don't really work on the new cameras either.

Also trying to decide if the extra motion detection range of pixel based might be worth the 2k vs 4k resolution trade-off in certain locations.

[StephenB]

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@Zzzzzzzzzz wrote:

Are your Pro 4's connected to a power adapter or only battery? According to this article, motion detection is pixel based when wired.

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My Pro 4 is wired (my ultras are not).  I haven't seen much evidence that the Pro 4's range is longer.  My essential indoor definitely has a lot longer range.  It's inside a window on the third floor, and detects people on the sidewalk quite a ways away.

[Zzzzzzzzzz]

@StephenB  Thanks, good to know.

[Zzzzzzzzzz]

@StephenB 

I've noticed that my Pro 2's are unable to record during a live view after an alert.

I set some the cameras to record for 2 minutes if they are triggered by motion. If I see the alert and do a live view during that two minutes, then the camera stops recording to the cloud and truncates thes recording. But the problem is that once I am in live view, I cannot even manually record while viewing, as the record button is greyed out. I actually have to stop the live view and go back in in order to record. Makes no sense because if, for example, someone is breaking in, then I have no recording of them because the recording was stopped once because I tried do a live view to see what's going on. 

Do the Pro 4's and Ultras have this issue?

[StephenB]

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@Zzzzzzzzzz wrote:

Do the Pro 4's and Ultras have this issue?

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I don't know.

This does sound like a bug though, so I am tagging the mods ( @JamesC and @ShayneS )

[jguerdat]

I'm not exactly sure what the differences are especially compared to how they used to be but the older cameras like yours required you to manually record during live view since live view supersedes automated recording. While I haven't used live view on the newer cameras and having motion being detected, I believe that works as you suggest without needing to resort to manually recording.