Replacing batteries requires deleting and re-adding camera

[Prolixium]

Hi - 

I've a large collection of Ultra 2, Pro 4, Pro 2, and Arlo (original VMC3030) cameras connected across 3x VMB5000 base stations.

I think it started about 4-5 months ago but it seems that roughly 50% of the time when I replace the batteries in any of these cameras the camera refuses to connect back to the base station and requires a delete & re-add (and also an associated hard reset of the camera, by pressing sync until the LED goes amber).

Also, to add to this sometimes the cameras won't even re-add when I try to add them.  I need to wait a few hours and try again.

One interesting thing is that the original Arlo cameras don't have this problem, only the Pro & Ultra series.

Rebooting base stations doesn't help during this process.

Anyone else seeing anything similar?

I've hardwired as many cameras as possible to avoid this and just the task of replacing batteries but most of my cameras aren't near a power source.

- Mark

[ShayneS]

Hi @Prolixium

It appears your network channels are fairly congested which might be causing this issue you are experiencing. if possible, can you segregate the devices on channels to 1, 6,11. This will hopefully improve the issue affecting your cameras. I also wanted to note that the base station selects the best channels automatically, so this is why switching to the channels mentioned above should help with that network traffic. 

[StephenB]

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@Prolixium wrote:

Anyone else seeing anything similar?

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FWIW, I am not seeing it.

It sounds painful - maybe one of the mods will follow up (getting logs from you the next time it happens).

@JamesC , @JessicaP , @ShayneS ?

[ShayneS]

Hi @Prolixium

It appears your network channels are fairly congested which might be causing this issue you are experiencing. if possible, can you segregate the devices on channels to 1, 6,11. This will hopefully improve the issue affecting your cameras. I also wanted to note that the base station selects the best channels automatically, so this is why switching to the channels mentioned above should help with that network traffic. 

[Prolixium]

Hiya @ShayneS - 

Thanks for the reply.  This seems like a likely explanation.  However, I'm not sure if there's anything I can realistically about it if true.  My own Wi-Fi network is 5GHz only to avoid the 2.4GHz congested spectrum but I can't control any of my neighbors' Wi-Fi configs.  I live in a suburban but high-ish density townhome complex and I'm not even a middle unit.

The odd thing is that once a camera is connected I have no throughput or video quality issues.  It's only when I have to replace the batteries.  Rebooting base stations also doesn't boot cameras offline (although it takes them all a few min to join back).  I'm also struggling to reconcile the fact that I haven't had issues with any of the original Arlo cameras (although as of a few days ago I'm down to only one of those, so sample size is small).

I don't suppose there's a roadmap item for Arlo to support 5GHz radios in their cameras?  I suspect that'll kill battery life pretty nicely, though.. 

- Mark

[StephenB]

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@Prolixium wrote:

I don't suppose there's a roadmap item for Arlo to support 5GHz radios in their cameras? 

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The issue there is range.  The main reason 5 ghz isn't as congested is that it doesn't reach as far.  

The Ultra 2 (when combined with the VMB5000) has dual 2.4 ghz / 5 ghz.  The user has no control over what band is used though.  And there are some posts here that make me think that the system doesn't always make the correct choice on its own.

[Prolixium]

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@StephenB wrote:

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The Ultra 2 (when combined with the VMB5000) has dual 2.4 ghz / 5 ghz.  The user has no control over what band is used though.  And there are some posts here that make me think that the system doesn't always make the correct choice on its own.

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Huh, TIL.  Yeah, I'd guess it's definitely not picking 5 GHz for me since the Ultra 2s that I have exhibit the same issues as the Pro 2 & Pro 4s.  No better, no worse.

[LandJS]

Though I have never experienced a issue changing a battery I can't help but be curious with this discussion.  You say your system is 5 GHZ only which would mean that 2.4 has been turned off.  I don't believe 5 GHZ was even used by Arlo prior to the Ultra and so curious how the pro 2's work.  The thing to try is to turn 2.4 on an use a wi-fi analyzer to find the least congested channel in your area and lock your 2.4 to that channel.  This will force Arlo to use only that channel for 2.4 and continue with whichever 5 GHZ it chooses.  Locking your 2.4 to a set channel will only allow it to be used.  As Shane mentioned 1 - 6 and 11 are normally the best choices for 2.4 GHZ.  A analyzer will not only show which channels our least congested but will also show what channels your your Arlo is actually using.  Arlo does select different channels anytime you reboot it unless your router is locked to one.

[StephenB]

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@LandJS wrote:

I don't believe 5 GHZ was even used by Arlo prior to the Ultra and so curious how the pro 2's work.

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Of course the Pro 2s are connecting to the base using the closed wifi network (which is dual band in the case of the VMB5000).

Using a wifi analyzer is a reasonable next step to see what channels the bases are using.  Though that's only an option on Android or a PC - there aren't any available for iOS.  Unfortunately there is no way to tell whether the Ultra 2s are connecting with 2.4 or 5 ghz.

[LandJS]

I guess then the logical question then would be, if the Arlo is a self controlled self functioning system how then am I able to control it's channels by setting them in my router thereby taking self control from them.  This is something proved by using the analyzer  which shows both the 2.4 and 5ghz channels  Arlo is using.

[StephenB]

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@LandJS wrote:

I guess then the logical question then would be, if the Arlo is a self controlled self functioning system how then am I able to control it's channels by setting them in my router 

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You aren't actually controlling its channels.  You are just influencing what it chooses.

If there is a strong wifi signal nearby, the base is programmed to use the same channel as that signal. 

@Prolixium has no strong 2.4 ghz signal; because that radio is turned off.  It's not clear what channels the bases will pick - but the analyzer app will show them.

[LandJS]

well then we will have to agree to disagree because I have done it 50/60 or more times checking it with an analyzer every time and it has never failed to do so and remain so until a reboot.

[StephenB]

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@LandJS wrote:

I have done it 50/60 or more times checking it with an analyzer every time and it has never failed to do so and remain so until a reboot.

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That's not inconsistent with what I posted above.  The base will normally follow whatever channel a nearby router or access point is set to, because it is programmed to do that.

But you are not directly controlling the base (and neither is the router).  That's just the way the automatic channel selection software in the base is programmed to work.  So the base is in fact independent (and new firmware could hypothetically include a different algorithm that would operate differently).

Back on topic: if @Prolixium wants to get his base(s) to shift to a different channel, then he would need to put a 2.4 ghz wifi signal near those bases.  No disagreement on this, it's the only known way to influence the channel selection.  But first he should see if there is a channel with less interference - so I'd start with the WiFi analyzer, and take a look at that first.

[LandJS]

Whatever, your actually one of the reasons I haven't commented on here of late.  You act as if you designed the system and know every detail of it.  Hard to believe Arlo hasn't hired you to fix all the issues this system has had to deal with.  Outta here

[Prolixium]

I actually came back here to mention that the frequency of having to delete & re-add when replacing batteries is now about 100% of the time.  It's weird because this is literally the only thing that I have a problem with.  When the cameras are paired, I have no operational issues.  Motion detection, streaming, etc. works great and there's no tiling and /usually/ all cameras stay online.  So, I'm now wondering if it's actually 2.4 GHz being congested or just the sheet number of broadcast SSIDs that are in the area (it's about ~40 and I think they're all dual-band) so maybe the cameras have trouble selecting the right one?  Something's not adding up for me.

Back on topic: if @Prolixium wants to get his base(s) to shift to a different channel, then he would need to put a 2.4 ghz wifi signal near those bases.  No disagreement on this, it's the only known way to influence the channel selection.  But first he should see if there is a channel with less interference - so I'd start with the WiFi analyzer, and take a look at that first.

Ha, sounds like a creative solution.  I can easily try both of these and report back.