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chicane · ‎2024-03-07

I've had ongoing headaches with my Pro 5S cameras not detecting events or taking snapshots instead.

Today I did a side by side test with a Pro 4 camera in the same location. Both devices are on 2.4GHz and connected to an outdoor Ubiquiti AP (great signal strength for both). I did try the device on 5GHz and found it to be similarly flaky so reverted to a hopefully more stable 2.4GHz connection. Unfortunately not.

Since I have done this side by side test, the Pro 4 is detecting every event (and recording a video).

The pro 5 recorded video once, completely missed one event and recorded a snapshot instead for the third event. With the video was choppy and audio partially missing at the start, while the Pro4 was smooth and had audio for the full clip.

Both devices are active under my subscription, set identical under the routine (to record video), and smart notifications set the same.

I've had this replaced with a new sealed unit by support for the second time with the same outcome.

Are these devices inherently faulty? anyone else experiencing similar?

BrookeN · 2024-05-22

The firmware has started rolling out. It should be completed within the next week. As soon as that is fully rolled out the behavior you are seeing will be resolved.

BrookeN · 2024-03-26

I have this escalated to the engineering team. I will update the community as soon as possible.

roundball · ‎2024-12-10

@BrookeN Troubleshooting Update for you...Just installed a spare 5s cam on my same WiFi network with the other group of four 5s cams.

SPARE CAMERA NAME IS:

Cam#8-Pro5s-WIFI_CompareTest.

Has its old production Firmware # 1.040.28.17_195_ac8359b.

Installed on Front Porch…with existing slow 5s Front Porch cam.

Tested by walking in and out of the front porch.

Both cameras responded…BUT:

Cam#8-Pro5s-WIFI_CompareTest camera worked much faster with its old production Firmware # 1.040.28.17_195_ac8359b.

Existing Front Porch cam with its most current production Firmware was still much slower.

IMPORTANT NOTE:

Everything is the same for both 5s cams except the Firmware.

Same Power, Same location, Same network, Same UI App.

Now let’s install this previous FTF firmware on the spare camera.

# Field Trial Firmware # 1.050.33.6_71_393f539

Spare Camera Name: Cam#8-Pro5s-WIFI_CompareTest

Thanks

BrookeN · ‎2024-12-11

@roundball I am looking into this.

biggy82 · ‎2024-12-12

Hi Brooke,

I have the same issue with one of my Pro 5s (VMC4060AerH4). I have two activity zones set up and only one zone registers movement. I have literally walked up / down / around the entire second zone and the camera almost never registers movement. Firmware seems up-to-date (1.050.33.10_106_3a163f7)

StephenB · ‎2024-12-13

@biggy82 wrote:

I have the same issue with one of my Pro 5s (VMC4060AerH4). I have two activity zones set up and only one zone registers movement. I have literally walked up / down / around the entire second zone and the camera almost never registers movement.

How far away from the camera are you?

roundball · ‎2024-12-14

@biggy82 @BrookeN

FWIW, the ONLY arlo 5s Firmware that has made everything operate in top notch condition...for several weeks this Fall, was:

Field Trial Firmware # 1.050.33.6_71_393f539

I posted (above) about how good it was, week after week and then arlo shockingly replaced it with different firmware.....without any communications.....and I've had nothing but several problems again ever since.

I keep asking for that FTF to be reinstalled.

biggy82 · ‎2024-12-15

The activity zone in question runs from 0.5 m to about 4m away from the camera.

Update on performance: I walked straight toward the camera and it registered the movement when I was approx. 2m away from the camera. Tried walking across the activity zone at a similar distance away from the camera and it registered no movement. Isn't the camera more sensitive to perpendicular movement than parallel?

StephenB · ‎2024-12-15

@biggy82 wrote:

Isn't the camera more sensitive to perpendicular movement than parallel?

It is more sensitive to motion across the field of view than motion straight towards the camera. It is also more sensitive at the bottom of the field of view than it is at the top.

Edinburgh_lad1 · ‎2024-12-15

One should have a sign outside their property advising a thief/burglar not to walk in a line towards the camera but across its field view. What's the point of having Arlo CCTV otherwise?

jguerdat · ‎2024-12-16

Arlo has never been a CCTV camera company. Motion has to be detected somehow and these cameras, a long with many other brands, use PIR sensors which all work in the same way - detection is best when motion is across the FOV. Why not complain about any other device that uses PIR sensors? As we have always stated (and provided the links to FAQs for best camera positioning, etc.), positioning the cameras properly is paramount.

The indoor cameras do use pixel change detection which works through glass to monitor certain areas (I use them here). However, that requires constant power so a battery-operated camera is not a good choice.

chicane · ‎2024-12-16

@jguerdat, if not a CCTV/video security company, what is Arlo trying to be?

While the detection works 'best' for across the FOV, this does not explain why the Pro 5S (or Pro 5, depending on the market) works poorly compared to the previous model, the Pro 4?

chicane · ‎2024-12-16

@BrookeN thanks for your replies so far.

However, I'm hoping you can provide a bit more help.

I've spent time away from this thread yet I'm back to find out what the latest is in this long running saga.

We had a FTF that you piloted for many of us. Since, this firmware has changed.

Given the unreliability of the Pro 5S (or Pro 5, depending on the sale market) I have Pro 4 cameras where I need reliability. The Pro 5S cameras STILL are missing events. This is the same issue we observed over 9 months ago when this thread was started.

Why is this happening again?

Your friend/colleague Jeffrey has simply stopped replying to messages.

I know Arlo would prefer to treat their paying customers with contempt rather than honesty, however I'm personally asking you to divulge what you can. If not via this chat. please provide a timeframe for a teleconference with yourself and ideally an L3 engineer.

@roundball thanks for keeping the heat on and with your posts. I will be doing a parallel test today to add weight to our position. Also, I'll send you a DM. I think it's time for a class action.

BrookeN · ‎2024-12-16

The production firmware is currently rolling out it is at about 35%. It should be completed within the next few weeks and you should see it for your devices. The production firmware should have the fixes for the behaviors you have been seeing. I will reach out to Jeff to reach out to you. He has been off due to bereavement leave, so he is more then likely catching up from being off.

chicane · ‎2024-12-16

Hi @BrookeN, I appreciate your prompt response today. Apologies to hear about Jeff's bereavement leave, however it has been months since he replied to my messages last.

May I ask you some straight questions about the current issues, specifically poor detection (compared to a Pro 4) and missing events completely?

1. This production firmware you refer to, what is the exact version?

2. Is the understanding that all issues are resolved in this 35% deployed production firmware? Please state if so. If not, is the missing event phenomena observed by me, @roundball and others solvable? Or is it an un-fixable hardware flaw causing it?

3. As there are multiple other versions since the main FTF version we trialed, please outline what each version is and what is known regarding each (some internal release notes would be great).

*APP / Video Retrieval Slowness*

4. I notice the speed of video retrieval depending on the time of day. can you provide any insight into the cloud storage side? are there times of day that your team is aware of difference in performance? Some acknowlegement on this specific issue would be appreciated, I do see others conflating the various issues but it is imperative we keep them separate for any chance of solving them.

Again, I appreciate you being at least responsive to our concerns. If you can fill the above gaps I'd appreciate it.

Thanks @BrookeN look forward to your responses.

Regards,

chicane

Edinburgh_lad1 · ‎2024-12-16

I'm surprised you're persevering @chicane I'd have got rid of the the damn thing months ago, as, as you can clearly see, improvements aren't made at a satisfactory pace.

Interesting comments about cloud access. I did notice, too, that in the evenings UK time, the titles take longer to show the last cameras' screenshots on the main screen. There's been an Android app update today, so maybe Jeff has addressed it.

Yes, Jeff is a bit of a hit and miss. Last time I was in contact with him about the notification dot on the old app, he was in touch initially but then stopped. The notification dot issue didn't get relieved for months afterwards. I sometimes wonder if the dev team is Jeff, but heyho. Unlike other companies, Arlo is very secretive about who works for them...

roundball · ‎2024-12-16

@BrookeN

Just following up BrookeN...please tell me when you're going to have this proven best FTF firmware downloaded to me ??

.................................................................................................................

It has been the only 5s Firmware that has made everything operate in top notch condition for several weeks this Fall, which I shared with you and the Forum multiple times now.

Field Trial Firmware # 1.050.33.6_71_393f539

Then arlo shockingly replaced it with different firmware.....without any communications.....and I've had nothing but several problems again ever since.

Will you Please have them download it tonight ??

chicane · ‎2024-12-16

@Edinburgh_lad1 your timeline for slowness of video feed showing (thumbnails, video recording, playback) lines up with my observation which is morning time for the East coast of Australia. The worst is around 7-8am AEST, which is 9-10pm GMT, however there are minimal movements prior to 7am local time so the problematic window may start earlier.

I can see detections on a Pro 4 instead of starting at 1/4 of the window frame, it's more like 1/2 or 3/4 through (I will report back on my parallel test with a Pro 5S later today).

Device app versions really should not have anything to do with it (issue is the app being dependent on this cloud server hosting).

I did ask Jeff how many numbers were in the dev team and he did admit it was a small number but would not tell me exactly.

jguerdat · ‎2024-12-17

@chicane wrote:

@jguerdat, if not a CCTV/video security company, what is Arlo trying to be?

While the detection works 'best' for across the FOV, this does not explain why the Pro 5S (or Pro 5, depending on the market) works poorly compared to the previous model, the Pro 4?

Arlo, like most of the other similar companies selling similar cameras, is designed to detect and record activity, not to be a whole security system. If you want one of those, pay the big bucks and have it wired in. BTW, CCTV means Closed Circuit TV which is obviously not what Arlo, Blink, Eufy, etc. attempt to be.

As for differences between cameras, one can surmise that there's different hardware, design and software involved. That can make things better or not.

StephenB · ‎2024-12-17

@chicane wrote:

if not a CCTV ...

CCTV is a specific category of video security system. CCTV (closed circuit TV) security systems use hard-wired PoE (power over ethernet) cameras that connect to a dedicated on-premise NVR (network video recorder). https://www.jvsg.com/ipica-ratings/ has a list of popular CCTV setups.

Arlo doesn't offer either of those things, and AFAIK has no plans to add those type of products in the future. Which is why they are not listed in the above link.

roundball · ‎2024-12-17

@BrookeN - 12.17.24 TROUBLESHOOTING UPDATE

REFERENCE: I had installed a spare 5s cam on my same WiFi network with the other group of four 5s cams…for comparison troubleshooting.

SPARE CAMERA NAME IS:

Cam#8-Pro5s-WIFI_CompareTest.

Has its old production Firmware # 1.040.28.17_195_ac8359b.

Even with its old firmware, Cam#8-Pro5s-WIFI_CompareTest worked better than the four main 5s cams with their current Firmware # 1.050.33.10_105_3a163f7.

…………………………………………………………………………..

Since a previous Field Trial Firmware # 1.050.33.6_71_393f539

on all four main 5s cams had appeared to be flawless for several weeks this Fall...and then with an unexpected arlo firmware change all the cams have had problems ever since...I’d asked if we could reinstall that FTF on the spare 5s cam…Cam#8-Pro5s-WIFI_CompareTest…for troubleshooting.

........................................................................................................................

Last night, firmware was indeed changed on the spare Camera:

Cam#8-Pro5s-WIFI_CompareTest…..but not to the requested

previous Field Trial Firmware # 1.050.33.6_71_393f539.

Cam#8-Pro5s-WIFI_CompareTest firmware is now:

# 1.050.33.10_106_3a163f7

One digit different than the Firmware on the main four cams.

# 1.050.33.10_105_3a163f7

So what is that Firmware # 1.050.33.10_106_3a163f7 ?

……………………………………………………………………....................

And unfortunately, this week’s latest UI upgrade version 5.3.3. has caused all my cams to take a couple minutes to post to Feed. Given that new UI / Feed problem, I can’t tell if last night’s Firmware upgrade on Cam#8-Pro5s-WIFI_CompareTest is any good or not.

Your insight would be appreciated, thanks.

chicane · ‎2024-12-17

Hi @StephenB & @jguerdat:

I find it amusing you're choosing to focus on this aspect rather than the pertinent points in my previous posts. Is this an attempt at deflection?

FYI: CCTV is a synonym for security cameras.

Source: https://synonyms.reverso.net/synonym/en/cctv

"CCTV means “closed-circuit television” and is commonly known as a video surveillance technology. “Closed-circuit” means broadcasts are limited (closed) to a selected group of monitors, unlike “regular” TV, which can be received and viewed by whoever sets up a reception device."

Source: https://senstar.com/senstarpedia/cctv-meaning/

While Arlo is not your typical wired "traditional" video surveillance system, if you apply the same concept with wireless/cloud based technologies, a solution similar to Arlo (or any other IP based camera with cloud storage). Broadcast to a select group of monitors" can be easily done by streaming from a single device (or more).

You will find every one of Arlo's customers has the same opinion.

StephenB · ‎2024-12-17

@chicane wrote:
You will find every one of Arlo's customers has the same opinion.

Definitely not the case. Many people posting here do understand that distinction. Some are saying that they are switching from Arlo to a CCTV system. I have recommended to some folks here that a CCTV PoE system would be be a better fit for them. Though I usually call that a PoE system, and do not use the term CCTV.

I think @jguerdat was actually responding to @Edinburgh_lad1's sarcastic signage comment, not something you said. I didn't take the bait on that particular post myself.

Back on point, I agree that the Pro 5s should equal or outperform the Pro 4 in every respect - including the PIR sensor performance. I haven't seen your issues with the Pro 5s myself, but that might be due to the details of my camera's location. It is located on a porch, with an Ultra on the other side of the porch. Both overlap coverage of the front door, and I haven't seen much difference in PIR sensitivity when people come to that doorway.

PIR is limited though, and getting the sensor to perform a lot better than what the Arlo cameras deliver would require using a bigger sensor. If you are interested in how they work, these articles might be helpful:

That said, IMO the Pro 5s detection should match or exceed all the other Arlo Pro camera models.

Edinburgh_lad1 · ‎2024-12-17

@StephenB "Both overlap coverage of the front door, and I haven't seen much difference in PIR sensitivity when people come to that doorway."

But that implies that you've seen some then. Isn't that enough to prove the point?

So, is this a CCTV system or a toy? I agree with @chicane on the definition of CCTV being extended. This kind of thing happens all the time. I hear young people refer to a usb drive as a dongle, or the word gay now refers to lesbian couples, too.

chicane · ‎2024-12-17

@StephenB that's your subjective opinion and I dare say, fundamentally incorrect.

Let me clarify something. Your guru tag on your profile is because you are a forum moderator right? are you connected to Arlo in any financial way? Any incentives for you to defend Arlo as a company by deflecting?

StephenB · ‎2024-12-17

@chicane wrote:

Your guru tag on your profile is because you are a forum moderator right? are you connected to Arlo in any financial way? Any incentives for you to defend Arlo as a company by deflecting?

I am not a moderator - they all work for Arlo. I have never worked for Arlo, and I have never received compensation from them. I have no incentive to defend them, and if you review my posts you will see that I often don't. Current examples include my comments on the lack of custom modes, the defects in geofencing+schedules, and the requirement for a separate subscription for a second home.

StephenB · ‎2024-12-17

@chicane wrote:

@StephenB that's your subjective opinion and I dare say, fundamentally incorrect.

I am confused on what you mean. What is my subjective opinion????

I am not saying that the any of issues you are seeing with your Pro 5s aren't real problems. Just that I haven't seen them with my camera. And I added that the placement of my particular camera could be the reason why I am not seeing them. It is in an "easy" location, where motion is only up the stairs of the porch to the front door.

It is quite clear that Arlo is not trying to compete with vendors of PoE camera systems. If they were, they would be selling that type of system.

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