Rechargeable Batteries and High Voltages

[pk-robot]

Good Morning! I've read all of the posts here about rechargeables (I think) and have some issues I haven't found addressed yet.

I have a 4 camera system a few months old. I purchased these batteries after testing a 4 pack:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001BLQQ7S/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

"Silver" Tenergy RCR123A 3.V 900mAh

The first set I purchased worked fine, so I bought 12 more. None of the batteries from the second set worked in particular camera. I would get the "empy red" battery cell and after a few minutes, the camera would shut down and indicate the batteries needed changing. These were batteries fresh off my Nitecore basic charger.

I got Arlo involved thinking it was just the camera I was trying them in, but after testing them in the other cameras none worked in those either

I finally got a voltage tester and it showed that the set of 4 that worked all had voltages hovering around 3.6 fully charged. The 12 batteries that don't work show higher votages, 3.8, 3.9 range, even 4. I have no idea why these batteries are showing such different voltages when they are the same model and using the same charger. 

The Energizer and Streamlight non-rechargeable batteries I've had to fall back on show voltages of 3.24 out of the box.

It seems these cameras still have issues with higher voltages. Has anyone found this  to be the case? 

Does anyone know of a LI-ION charger that will "recondition" a battery and charge it to a set voltage? I have not found any.

Thanks,

PK

[jguerdat]

I suppose IG could be the specific battery model that's causing the issue. FWIW, the various batteries I have (gray UltraFire 3.7v, 2300mAh, purple GTL 3.7v, 2300mAh, TangsFire 3.7v, 1000mAh) all charge to 4.1 to 4.2v. Whether that's significant, I don't know.

[TomMac]

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"Silver" Tenergy RCR123A 3.V 900mAh

I finally got a voltage tester and it showed that the set of 4 that worked all had voltages hovering around 3.6 fully charged. The 12 batteries that don't work show higher votages, 3.8, 3.9 range, even 4. I have no idea why these batteries are showing such different voltages when they are the same model and using the same charger. 

The Energizer and Streamlight non-rechargeable batteries I've had to fall back on show voltages of 3.24 out of the box.

It seems these cameras still have issues with higher voltages. Has anyone found this  to be the case? 

snipped

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 If your 3v batteries are showing 4v ( or close to 4v ) coming off charge, something is NOT right..they should be about 3.3-3.4v after off charge for a little while.

Check the voltage output of the charger... it should be at about a max of 3.5-3.6v ( the output voltage should be in the fine print on the charger )

It could just be a defective charger.  Also just because the voltage reads high, your testing really under no load... the battery may collaspe with a load if bad.

As to the cameras, they  handle higher voltages with no problem as the one Jeff and I are running are rated 3.7v and off charge are 4.2v +/- and they work well.

[TomMac · Accepted solution]

This is fairly new...poster's name left off

( I would have edited an older post of my about 3v batteries but the board doesn't allow it so I aske them to pull it )

Bold is my doing... may be the problem you had.

HAVE not verified this statement with Netgear

Re: Rechargeable batteries for use with Arlo cameras[ Edited ]

‎2015-05-15 01:58 AM - edited ‎2015-05-15 02:11 AM

Bought and set my Arlo 4 camera system 5/4/15 around 3-4pm. As soon as the provided Energizer batteries dropped 1 bar on the battery indicator, I ordered rechargeable batteries and chargers.

- (8) Tenergy Li-Ion 3V 900mah (blue/silver) with 4 dock charger, X 2

- (10) Tenergy LiFePO4 750mah (green/silver), X2

As soon as they arrived some of the blue 900mah needed a 3 hr charge. 

The green 750mah were charged on arrival.

5/14/15 I got a 1 red bar battery indicator / 10% email at 8:30pm. 

I changed out the old Energizer one-use batteries with the blue 900mah Tenergy, reset the camera in position, THEN noticed the battery indicator wasn't corrected to a full 3 green bars via iOS app but still 1 red bar (should've checked before mounting). I checked to see if the camera would work, it did but had a longer than usual delay with live streaming.

I tried the green 750mah Tenergy, in the other camera I wanted to change to rechargeable batteries even tho it had 2 green bars (both high traffic, best quality), and the battery indicator dropped to 1 red bar. I then tried the blue Tenergy in this same camera and got the same results.

I ended up putting the old Energizer batteries back into the cameras and now have both cameras at 1 red bar via iOS and website through computer.

Support said that the Engineers tested these batteries and found that they WILL NOT WORK. They said that I need to buy 3.6V-3.7V Li-Ion Rechargeable batteries and added that I should NOT use the green 750mah LiFePO4 Tenergy. They said that 3V is not enough to operate the camera.  I expressed my confusion since the provided Energizer batteries are 3V as well. So that doesn't make sense... rechargeable or one-use shouldn't make a difference, 3V is 3V.  They said thay there is a specific discussion referring to ONLY USE 3.6V or 3.7V Li-ION RECHARGEABLE batteries on here but I can't find where a Netgear/Arlo rep says this, just customer discussions about trial/error. Also, this is NOT indicated on the box, app, etc. as operating requirements. Now I'm stuck with a bunch of batteries I can't use?  I asked about a possible software problem and they said it was not a software problem.

Base Station - 1.3.2261 (have not restarted due to others saying it didn't fix their problem)

Cameras - 1.2.2412

snipped balance of text

[TomMac · Accepted solution]

Bought and set my Arlo 4 camera system 5/4/15 around 3-4pm. As soon as the provided Energizer batteries dropped 1 bar on the battery indicator, I ordered rechargeable batteries and chargers.

- (8) Tenergy Li-Ion 3V 900mah (blue/silver) with 4 dock charger, X 2

- (10) Tenergy LiFePO4 750mah (green/silver), X2

As soon as they arrived some of the blue 900mah needed a 3 hr charge. 

The green 750mah were charged on arrival.

5/14/15 I got a 1 red bar battery indicator / 10% email at 8:30pm. 

I changed out the old Energizer one-use batteries with the blue 900mah Tenergy, reset the camera in position, THEN noticed the battery indicator wasn't corrected to a full 3 green bars via iOS app but still 1 red bar (should've checked before mounting). I checked to see if the camera would work, it did but had a longer than usual delay with live streaming.

I tried the green 750mah Tenergy, in the other camera I wanted to change to rechargeable batteries even tho it had 2 green bars (both high traffic, best quality), and the battery indicator dropped to 1 red bar. I then tried the blue Tenergy in this same camera and got the same results.

I ended up putting the old Energizer batteries back into the cameras and now have both cameras at 1 red bar via iOS and website through computer.

Support said that the Engineers tested these batteries and found that they WILL NOT WORK. They said that I need to buy 3.6V-3.7V Li-Ion Rechargeable batteries and added that I should NOT use the green 750mah LiFePO4 Tenergy. They said that 3V is not enough to operate the camera.  I expressed my confusion since the provided Energizer batteries are 3V as well. So that doesn't make sense... rechargeable or one-use shouldn't make a difference, 3V is 3V.  They said thay there is a specific discussion referring to ONLY USE 3.6V or 3.7V Li-ION RECHARGEABLE batteries on here but I can't find where a Netgear/Arlo rep says this, just customer discussions about trial/error. Also, this is NOT indicated on the box, app, etc. as operating requirements. Now I'm stuck with a bunch of batteries I can't use?  I asked about a possible software problem and they said it was not a software problem.

Base Station - 1.3.2261 (have not restarted due to others saying it didn't fix their problem)

Cameras - 1.2.2412

snipped balance of text

[pk-robot]

Thank you everybody for your responses. It sounds like these particular Tenergy batteries, the 'blue/silver' in 900 mHa, are potentially the issue. That is disappointing, as they were pretty expensive. I will bite the bullet and get some of the others on ebay I've seen referred to on these forums.

Thanks again,

PK

[jguerdat]

Right now I'd have to highly recommend the TangsFire 3.7v 1000mAh batteries.  I'm at 500+ minutes of videos (equivalent to 125 days or 4+ months worth of the normal recording advertised by Netgear of 4 minutes per day average. And still show 2 bars!  That FAR outdoes the UltraFires and GTLs!

http://www.amazon.com/TangsFire%C2%AE-16340-1000MHA-rechargeable-battery/dp/B00FWOJLGI

[TomMac]

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jguerdat wrote:

Right now I'd have to highly recommend the TangsFire 3.7v 1000mAh batteries.  I'm at 500+ minutes of videos (equivalent to 125 days or 4+ months worth of the normal recording advertised by Netgear of 4 minutes per day average. And still show 2 bars!  That FAR outdoes the UltraFires and GTLs!

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That's the highest level I've seen yet...( I don't have enough data yet as I've run the same ones for only 3+ days now)

But with the other brands I was on an avg of 40 days ... still not bad, but if the Tangsfire  follow Jeff testing, it will be great.

***One thing to note is Jeff ( to my knowlege )  runs high usage daily while I tend to run closer to spec time.

[jguerdat]

I actually have one of each. I report on the high usage one most since I can say something most often with it. Quickly, me experience with the normal usage camera and the UltraFires is less stellar than with the same batteries in the higher usage scenario.

[TomMac]

I actually had the same thing...when I pushed heavy use in 4-5 days, I hit aprox 60 day mark ( equal to in reg use )... but never made it that far in normal spec time use.

This is old data with camera s/w known to have battery reading problems ( v1.2.2222 )

see attached pic of spreadsheet;

[RobertRosal]

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TomMac wrote:

I actually had the same thing...when I pushed heavy use in 4-5 days, I hit aprox 60 day mark ( equal to in reg use )... but never made it that far in normal spec time use.

This is old data with camera s/w known to have battery reading problems ( v1.2.2222 )

see attached pic of spreadsheet;

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You nailed exactly what I believe and why I said in another post, for my use, I am testing based on days not minutes.  I firmly believe running your Arlos in heavy use is not the same as in normal spec time use.  Even though tests show heavy use at xxxx minutes, those minutes, in my mind do not equate directly to xx days in spec time use.

The reason why I chose the battery I am  testing now, as I was able to find the discharge chart that showed the discharge rate with different loads.

[RobertRosal]

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jguerdat wrote:

Right now I'd have to highly recommend the TangsFire 3.7v 1000mAh batteries.  I'm at 500+ minutes of videos (equivalent to 125 days or 4+ months worth of the normal recording advertised by Netgear of 4 minutes per day average. And still show 2 bars!  That FAR outdoes the UltraFires and GTLs!

http://www.amazon.com/TangsFire%C2%AE-16340-1000MHA-rechargeable-battery/dp/B00FWOJLGI

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Read the comments from Amazon and it looks like one of the users tested them.  If those results hold true, those batteries are one the highest MAH readings I've seen tested for 16340's.  

The ones I'm currently testing have been tested to have a little more than those TangsFire, which for the ones that fit our Arlo's, are so few.  Also ordered the Tangsfire to do testing as well as they look to be a good battery.  The TangsFire and the ones I am testing should at least last 2x as long or better than the GTL's or it's equivalents.

By chance do you know if the TangsFire are protected or un-protected?

[jguerdat]

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RobertRosal wrote:

By chance do you know if the TangsFire are protected or un-protected?

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Nope but, based on other comments I'd guess not since the protected version seems to be slightly longer, making them not fit in these cameras.

[RobertRosal]

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jguerdat wrote:

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RobertRosal wrote:

By chance do you know if the TangsFire are protected or un-protected?

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Nope but, based on other comments I'd guess not since the protected version seems to be slightly longer, making them not fit in these cameras.

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Thanks jguerdat.  Your results look promising and I hope the ones I am currently testing is just as succesful as the TangsFire.  I know what you mean about the size and the beauty of the ones I am testing are only 34.3 mm in length and they are protected.  They fit our cameras just as good as the Energizers.

[mztriff]

Hi.I'm new to the community and I was just reading your email about these batteries. I just order them online and tried them in my camera and they  won't work at all.  Tangsfire Ts 16340 1000mAh 3.7V Li-ion Rechargable battery with PCB. I have 12 of them and 3 chargers for them. As soon as I took them out of the box I tried to charge them and they were already charged and still they won't work. Any suggestions?

[TomMac]

 Tangsfire Ts 16340 1000mAh 3.7V Li-ion Rechargable battery with PCB

These batteries have been my arlo cameras for over 3 months and out of the 3 brands I tested worked the best.  ( another has been running them too )

First I'd check the battery voltage if possible... they should be in the area of 4.10 to 4.20 v off of charge.  I may also suspect the charger as they aren't the best but prob a travel charger.

Next, be very careful in the placement putting them in ( stickers inside show the proper +/- )

BTW, they look like this;

Also tho rated at 1000mahr, the real world rating comes in at about 700mahr  ( you can't physically fit more chems in that size to get over about 750 )

and lasted 55 days in my camera at spec use

[TomMac]

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. I just order them online and tried them in my camera and they  won't work at all.  Tangsfire Ts 16340 1000mAh 3.7V Li-ion Rechargable battery with PCB.

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@mztriff

Any changes or more info with this???  Were you able to fix the problem or test the voltages?

As a side note, I ordered another set of rechargeable from ebay... they were cheap and from china , rated at 1200 mahr ( no name, just blue )

I did it just to have a forth set of rechargeable.... well 1 of the 4 cells were bad... so I guess its really you get what you pay for. ( no they won't go to waste as I can use them in a flashlight )

From my tests of 3.7v li-ion;

GTLs and Ultrafires rated at 2300 mahr come in at really about 500-600 mahr and run avg of 40+ days ( max 46 days til doa )

Tangsfire rated at 1000mahr  come in better at about 700mahr and run an avg of 50+ days ( max 55 days till doa )

Unknown no-name , test running but expect less than GTL/Ultrafires base on prev results

Once again... I'll make this notice so new people see it

1) there is NO major company that produces a real world/quality 123/16340 cell that produces more than about half of the oem (oem is1500mahr)

2) china cells that are rated more 750 mahr are only dreaming they would work that well

3) buy a cell that fits the camera ( 7 or so tested so far on site ) AND is a quality cell from a known manufacturer. You may pay a bit more but they will work better.

4)The 3.7v Li-ion rechargeables seem to work well in the Arlo cam, and think about a PCB ( protection built in for safety in charge/discharge )

[mztriff]

Ok no jokes guys... Hahaha... The batteries work just fine. It was operator error. Forgot to take the plastic off of the batteries so they were not making the connection. Sorry for the inconvenience. My family got a real laugh out of that.... Sorry. But thanks so much for all your help and all your suggestions you're the best.

[mztriff]

Thanks TomMac

[TomMac]

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 The batteries work just fine. It was operator error.

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No jokes for me.... we all do it at one time or another. Glad to hear it working.

But, my kids never let me forget the time I changed the oil on my motorcycle and forgot to re-install the drain plug  😞

As a PS, watch the voltage if you have a meter after charging... they should max out at about 4.2 v +/- ..... but not in the 4.4v+ range which can cause possible damage to cell. Also in drain cycle watch your use schedule for life of batteries... it you find they last XX days then change them out at about XX-5 days for a safety factor and not to over drain the cell  ( cells with protection built in control max and min , so less worry )

[RobertRosal]

So true on the protected battery, left them in the camera six days after they went completely dead, was on a business trip and could not change them out.  When removed, none of the cells dropped below 2.99, supposedly still in the safe limit for rechargeables.

Still got 50 days of use.  Charged them back up and they are working like a champ!  Looking to get 60 days with at least 5 minutes a day average of recordings.  Last time averaged over 7, so I will see what happens.

[TomMac]

good luck, if I remember right, you using the nightcore.  The Tangsfires madee 55 days at spec so i hope you beat my record.

[RobertRosal]

Thanks, actually they are the EagleTac's.  Yeah that would be nice if it'll get past 55 days, this would be another choice for all us reachargeable users.

[TomMac]

good read on the Eagletacs  ;   http://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/EagleTac%2016340%20750mAh%20%28Black%29%20UK.html

came in at  690 mahr at constant 100ma draw

Great info as to other batteries and actual sizes of ones we have tested as 'fits'

http://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/CommonSmallSummary%20UK.html

[zebra500]

We're haivng issues with our tenergy batteries -- when we bought our second set of four cameras, we also bought the silver/blue/red tenery rechargables vs. the green ones used in our first set. They worked great and report full charge in green and have lasted now for two weeks. So, we went and bought more of the same batteries and placed them in our first set of four cameras and they report no charge and in red. What are we doing wrong? I don't think we are supposed to take the plastic casing off as mentioned but not sure if your plastic was in addition to what ours have. The green and the silver/blue all have a really tight plastic casing on them -- not over the connectors though -- so we are supposed to leave that on, correct?

[TomMac]

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zebra500 wrote:

We're haivng issues with our tenergy batteries

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If they are the lifepo4 type, there were previous problems with them.

As to plastic, if the termnals aren't covered, it's ok...the juice comes out the ends.  🙂

maybe check the voltage as they come off charge..not the first time a charger has gone bad.