End Of Life Policy

[simonjf]

I have just received an email about the End Of Life policy. If this is actually what is going to happen then I need to follow up with all my friends and family, social media connections to advocate against Arlo, and search for an alternative company and service, likely starting my own online storage service for them with appropriate security cameras.

Additionally, contacts at Arlo seem to be designed to prevent actual communication - which has the stink of a company that hates its customers.

[JamesC]

New, updated information is now available regarding the EoL policy that is very relevant to much of the discussion taking place here in this community thread. These changes will allow Arlo legacy users who currently have 7-day storage service to continue receiving that service, uninterrupted.

I encourage you all to visit https://downloads.arlo.com/images/PDFs/EOL_Policy/arlo-end-of-life-policy-021023.pdf and read up on these changes.

Thank you,

JamesC

[JamesC]

Hello Arlo Community,

With the recently announced Arlo end-of-life policy, we understand many of you are seeking more clarity and a path forward after your device becomes end-of-life. In the coming days we will be reaching out to impacted users via email with special offers. Keep an eye out for those emails as they will contain more details about these offers and instructions on how to take advantage of them.

For those who may not have read this new policy or have questions about how this may impact you, I encourage you to take a look here: https://downloads.arlo.com/images/PDFs/EOL_Policy/arlo-end-of-life-policy-021023.pdf?cid=a&cid=a

If you've not received a discount offer via email, visit https://www.arlo.com/en-us/eol-offer-form.html and enter your email address, if your account is eligible you will then receive the discount offer via email.

Thank you,

JamesC

[cbaileyuk]

Exactly the point I make about the data in my original post above - its no different to arlo, everything is up in the cloud there.

"Whilst you may read issues relating to security, the nature of what I record there is unsensitive"

As for remote access, two factor is now in place and "permitted sessions" from the app restrict all access.

Eufy, is, simply a better platform and that's coming from someone with 7 years Arlo experience. Now they have reneged on "our" agreement, I'm over with Arlo.

The deep irony is, if I want anything in the cloud, post April this year, I have to pay Arlo 😛

[StephenB]

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@cbaileyuk wrote:

its no different to arlo, everything is up in the cloud there.

One legal difference is that Eufy/Anker is a Chinese company and therefore governed by Chinese privacy laws.  Though of course that won't matter to many folks.

[cbaileyuk]

It has no bearing on the fact that Arlo, of US origin, via Netgear and otherwise, is largely based on investors money from who knows where....AND....

This company have reneged on a firm agreement (promise) "never expires". Arlo cannot be relied on in any way whatsoever now.

"legal" (differences) seemingly do not bother/apply to Arlo but they will when the litigation based on the prior promise begins 🙂 

[Jhallman]

I'm sure many of us are going to 'try' the same thing, i.e. run them into the ground.  Except you will lose the email notification and there will be no recorded video to review.  It sounds like the push notification might still be there, and personally, I have to look at whether that would allow me to view it on local storage.  I had a usb hard drive plugged in originally but I never used it, if I can manage without the email and just a push and view it off the hard drive that might salvage the system.

[StephenB]

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@cbaileyuk wrote:

It has no bearing on the fact that Arlo, of US origin

As I said, many folks won't care.  But it is very relevant to others (several folks considering other vendors said so on the main EoL thread). 

So even if it doesn't matter to you, I think it is important to be clear - there are legal differences in privacy laws in the EU, US, and China.  Arlo's privacy policy is pretty strict - and unlike some competitors, their public position is that they won't provide your video to others without your authorization (including governments/law enforcement) unless there is a valid court order.

But at the end of the day, you need to trust the cloud providers you use with your data.  If you don't feel you can trust Arlo anymore, then you clearly should move on to someone you can trust.  And I certainly understand how the EoL annnouncement would result in many deciding that they need to switch to a different vendor. 

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@cbaileyuk wrote:

 is largely based on investors money from who knows where...

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Major investors in US publicly traded companies are a matter of public record.  BlackRock is the largest investor, holding about 14% of the stock - so no single investor controls.

• https://money.cnn.com/quote/shareholders/shareholders.html?symb=ARLO&subView=institutional

Netgear does not own any Arlo stock - the stock they obtained in the 2018 IPO was all redistributed to their stockholders.

• https://investor.netgear.com/releases/press-release-details/2018/NETGEAR-Completes-Spin-Off-of-Arlo/...

[cbaileyuk]

The core of this is that none of it needed to happen. But, Arlo have unilaterally reneged on a bilateral agreement between supplier (manuf) and customer. That forces people to look elsewhere - and to repeat, I've spent 7 years with the Arlo cams.

It's not going away for them though. 

The current owners only have offered one 'option' (under "their" / Arlo terms) - we EOL and you lose cloud access OR you pay subs and the cloud bit of the EOL comes back again. It's laughable - when combined with the fact that the contemporaneous marketing said "free, never expires". 

If they cannot be relied upon for a very basic term of the agreement - how the heck can we rely on their cloud management - we simply cannot, US based, China based, or otherwise. The issue is with the supplying firm here. Don't make promises (agreements) which you won't stand behind. The original purchasers who bought at a premium for "never expiring" cloud storage have simply, been duped. Who in their right mind would continue to trade with/invest further money on a company with such an approach to its customers.

[mamarcac]

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@Jhallman wrote:

I'm sure many of us are going to 'try' the same thing, i.e. run them into the ground.  Except you will lose the email notification and there will be no recorded video to review.  It sounds like the push notification might still be there, and personally, I have to look at whether that would allow me to view it on local storage.  I had a usb hard drive plugged in originally but I never used it, if I can manage without the email and just a push and view it off the hard drive that might salvage the system.

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That's the thing, on the older base stations we can't view locally stored videos without removing the usb drive. There is a project I'm hoping gains traction, a kind soul has developed ArloPi to accomplish what we're lacking - viewing recordings remotely.

https://github.com/tg9413/arlopi

[mamarcac]

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@cbaileyuk wrote:

@DaveWoj 

I have two properties and installed Eufy at the second one.

Whilst you may read issues relating to security, the nature of what I record there is unsensitive.

Simply, Eufy is better in many areas. As for cross alerting, Eufy does this. The quality of the visuals is better, the battery life is better, the camera support native local storage without subs. The devices provide statistics on detection, they have spotlights and alarms embedded.

I will ultimately move to Eufy to replace Arlo.

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@cbaileyukI was leaning towards Eufy as well, so since you're giving them a go what have you found lacking feature-wise? I think their web interface is pretty barebones but other than that I haven't seen what we'd be missing.

[cbaileyuk]

That's another key point - there is no alternative for the earlier adopters to access their files via the app, unless you subscribe; cynical doesn't even get close to describing this.

Its a shame the community has to start dev'ing its own solution to make use of the prior investment of hundreds, nay thousands of dollars/pounds. 

[cbaileyuk]

@mamarcac 

I have found the interface better on the Eufy. I am now on month two and the cameras and setup have been great and it can all be viewed via the local basestation, remotely without any clever configuration. No complaints at all.

And, to repeat, again, I have 7 years on Arlo and in that time, Arlo have served me well - but there is absolutely no reason this hardware should be relegated from a currently functional perspective but Arlo have allowed business hunger to get in the way of honouring prior agreements.

Try Eufy, I have zero compliants - functionally they offer more than the Pros I currently have. Spotlight, alarm, colour nightvision, excellent battery, more stats in the app.

[ildiavolorosso]

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@cbaileyuk wrote:

The core of this is that none of it needed to happen. But, Arlo have unilaterally reneged on a bilateral agreement between supplier (manuf) and customer. That forces people to look elsewhere - and to repeat, I've spent 7 years with the Arlo cams.

It's not going away for them though. 

The current owners only have offered one 'option' (under "their" / Arlo terms) - we EOL and you lose cloud access OR you pay subs and the cloud bit of the EOL comes back again. It's laughable - when combined with the fact that the contemporaneous marketing said "free, never expires". 

If they cannot be relied upon for a very basic term of the agreement - how the heck can we rely on their cloud management - we simply cannot, US based, China based, or otherwise. The issue is with the supplying firm here. Don't make promises (agreements) which you won't stand behind. The original purchasers who bought at a premium for "never expiring" cloud storage have simply, been duped. Who in their right mind would continue to trade with/invest further money on a company with such an approach to its customers.

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Well said. Captures my sentiment exactly. This may be a legal issue in some jurisdictions, maybe not in others. But it's definitely a brand and trust issue. You can't really rationalize reneging on a promise and expect people to trust you again.

[DaveWoj]

@cbaileyuk 

Correct me if I’m wrong.

Eufy cloud is $99 per year for up to 10 cameras

So what cameras are exterior and wired?

I don’t want it running off a battery.

It looks like the solo outdoor cam is the only one.

I’ve read the entire manual and see nothing about how to cross trigger.

Can you tell me where this is done in the app without me having to get a camera and install the app?

Does it require a home base?

[cbaileyuk]

@DaveWoj 

I think cloud is 99 - but I don't pay for cloud, I just use local recording and view remotely.

I use the 2c pro and 2pro range. They are battery - I use a solar panel on one as it is in a difficult to reach place. I'm not sure on wired versions I am afraid.

Cross triggering 100% works. Search for "Automations" - I have multiple ones setup, driveway triggered, that sets off front door and pathway cams, etc. Its very smooth.

It uses a homebase (same as the general Arlo cams) and you setup triggers in the "automation" aspect of the app.

[DaveWoj]

@cbaileyuk 

and there's the problem.

I know what Arlo is. I know what are does.

I can't just get the solo cam and cross trigger.

Now I need to get a base station to do that. Ok no big deal

I want the cloud because I want to check a video from 30 minutes ago. Does viewing remotely work through the app? and if I have a camera set up at a second location, do I also need yet another base station to view those recordings remotely?

Sounds like a lot of work when the cloud is simple and that really is what this post is mainly about. Everyone losing the cloud.

[cbaileyuk]

I think your usage case if different to mine. I have explained what mine is and it works great.

Viewing remotely works 100% - same as it did on Arlo (pre EOL 😛 ) I can view recording for days ago on Eufy, without cloud access. But if I wanted cloud, I could buy it and watch via that.

I would suggest you check out some Eufy resources to find out more.

[DaveWoj]

@cbaileyuk 

I have spent some time researching eufy but it does take some time getting answers to some of the questions I have.

I don't think Eufy is a good option for me

1. I want wired mainly because it's more stable. Many of the cameras including the Arlo's run by battery shut down under 4 below.

2. The Solo Cam is the only outdoor cam available

3. I would need a base station in order to cross trigger

Thanks for the info.

[cbaileyuk]

No problems. You've investigated and decided its not for you. Definitely works for me 👍

Out of interest, which wired Arlo cameras do you currently use?

In addition, your point 2, I assume that's a typo. The solocam is absolutely NOT the "only outdoor camera available". As stated I have 2c, 2cpro, they are outdoor cameras..as is the 2, as is the 3 and 3pro. I think that number 2 statement you have made must be missing some words.

[DaveWoj]

@cbaileyuk 

Solo is the only outdoor wired

1. I have 6 Arlo Q's. 3 are Indoor but recording through windows for outdoor motion

Yes they trigger with light reflections from outside but where they are located it's very few times.

2. I have 3 Pro 2's and one Pro. I'm waiting until April to see what happen with the Pro and if it's still functional.

On a side note, My first Arlo was purchased in 2014. The lithium batteries were the first thing I changed out after realizing the cameras wouldn't work under 4 below and I wasn't going to climb up a ladder 12 feet to constantly change them so I attached alligator clips to the contacts, drilled a hole through the backs and ran a plug to an AC adapter for constant power. I was one of only a handful of users back then that did the modification. I sold both of them to a friend 3 years ago and they are still working fine. Until they don't on April 1st.

I think Arlo caught on to us modifying them through this community and when the Pro was released, it had a charging port that doubled as AC power source.

In addition, you could leave the batteries in in case of a power outage but without any power backup it wouldn't record to the cloud anyway so taking the batteries out made the cameras much lighter.

[cbaileyuk]

So when you said "the only outdoor camera available" you meant "the only outdoor wired camera". Understand.

I've no idea...my focus is wireless 👍

[ArloBlowsinCA]

To clarify: All Eufy Cameras I have installed have internal batteries (may be an issue - we'll see...). All cameras have a USB-C plug covered by a rubber flap for charging. My configuration:

eufy Security eufyCam 3C 2-Cam Kit (one camera is hard wired to a USB adapter for power).

eufy Security eufyCam 3

eufy Security SoloCam S40

Points to consider:

Any devices introduced into your environment introduce risk.

Try to isolate all IOT devices to their own network.

In eufy's case they state they use AWS for storage. Let's hope.

But again, protect your data. Zero trust. For example, I don't use any of the AI tools they offer (facial recognition).

Hope that helps.

Thanks for the ride Arlo - arrivederci!

[DaveWoj]

@ArloBlowsinCA 

Maybe it's just me but trying to get information on all the Eufy Cameras is confusing.

So they sell cameras as both wired and battery but I don't see where they are very clear about the battery powered cameras being able to power through the USB charging port.

Are you saying that is an option since that's how you have one set up?

Also, is the base station required for the 3C? if not, is it required for cross triggering?

You sound happy that they use AWS but that was one of the reasons Arlo switched to Microsoft storage, improved security and cost.

[cbaileyuk]

As I said in a previous response, I have a solar panel on one of mine.

It charges via usb, permanently. So that never gets recharged.

3c requires a basestation, that information is very easy to see.

As for cloud storage, I'd definitely prefer if Arlo was honouring the agreement we had when I purchased OR at least provided an equivalent system for the agreed "free".

Without aiming to sound confrontational, it feels like you hate Eufy and don't want it...which is fine...but I'm not sure why you are pursuing your interest. Just try another alternative if Arlo is pissing you off (and Eufy does too) 😄

[AussieRTM1]

As an Australian user of over 4 years, the EOL communication given Arlo's original advertising is totally unacceptable.

I hope sufficient customers in all jurisdictions challenge Arlo under their countries' respective trade practices legislation.

Older users should be grandfathered with protection for their commercially contracted cloud service advertised at the time.

One only has to look to mobile phone companies to see that just because you cannot update software that you don't lose the advertised use of the device as it was purchased.

There is a clear failure by Arlo to recognise this poor business decision will turn a large community of customers not only to other products but to caution potential new users about a company that is likely to make their expensive purchase redundant is as little as a year and at best 4 years if it was purchased at a high price at product launch.

While it is 12 months before my cameras are impacted I will monitor Arlo's actions for a few months before I proceed and lodge a fair trading complaint in Australia.

Good luck all with your efforts to hold Arlo to account.

[davehall001]

If they follow through with this EOL policy, they should update the software on the BASE so that the local USB storage is accessible via the "Library" function instead of having to remove it and view via a computer. I have no issue with removal of e-mail notifications or even firmware updates.

[cbaileyuk]

@davehall001 

I agree entirely.

Whilst Arlo really should honour their prior agreement, if they cannot do this, then at an absolute minimum, there should be some modicum of equivalent functionality by way of a software patch that enables people to access their files.

This idea that it's all got to end due to the hardware age BUT if you pay us, it might not end is absolutely shocking. At the very least, give people access to the library of files which are stored locally. Unplugging usb sticks and plugging them into a PC? Please......stop it.