Cloudy Arlo Ultra

[Apanew]

Pictures and videos from my Arlo Ultra appear cloudy - Pro2 significantly better. I have heard that there are times Ultra records at 1080 but even if that were the case, it should be just as good as pro2. Let me answer some questions: They are pointing at same area and pictures were taken a minute apart. I have taken the clear film off the cameras. When I adjust the brightness of the ultra, it make it worse - this is the best picture. I changed the angle on the ultra from 180 to 150 then to 120 but did not help. I have 3 sets of these cameras in 3 different locations in 2 cities and they behave the same. No, I did not subscribe to the per/camera options but tech support said that should not affect this issue. Level 2 tech support has been working on this for almost 2 weeks and I am told I am not the only one affected. I see people posting stunning pictures and I wonder what I am doing wrong. Any suggestions? Pictures posted here.

[st_shaw]

Honestly, I can't see any image quality issue in what you posted. I can't really see a significant difference between the two images.

The only other suggestions I can think of are:

1. Image quality seems important to you.  Subscribe to PVR.  You won't see the best image quality until the camera operates in 4K.

2. Check the video quality settings under Power Management to make sure it's set to Best Video.

[Apanew]

I am glad to see that beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. The picture at the top (Pro2) looks significantly more crisp and brighter to me. The utility cover at almost top right is a lot more visible to me on the pro2 picture. The grass is much greener - right side where both capture the same patch of grass - on the pro2. Yes, clarity is very important to me. I have been told that the current set up is capable of 4K. Even if it is only capable of 1080, it falls short of that expectation when compared to pro2. This is of course according to my eyes. I have checked the video quality and it is on best video. No, I do not want to pay more money as the system does not appear to deliver as promised on my current plan. 

[StephenB]

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@Apanew wrote:

I am glad to see that beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. 

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In the pdf, the utility cover is larger in the pro-2 (partly due to perspective, partly due to the smaller FoV).  I'm not seeing more detail though.  I do see a white outline around the Pro-2 image when I zoom it which I don't think is actually there.  

Color isn't as saturated in the ultra.  To my eye my own pro-2s are actually oversaturated.  Of course we are using different monitors, which also can make quite a bit of difference when comparing color.

[jsturess]

What I have read in this forum....

• For manual recording, the quality is just 1080p but when its motion triggered its 4k.
• And regarding changes the angle to 120 will not make 4K pixels to be compressed to the smaller view, its instead rendered/made by software i.e. not native, there for a worse picture

correct or not? Don't blame the messenger 🙂

It would be nice to have some scenarios in the FAQ Regarding when its 4k or not....

[Zachattack]

One consideration is that to obtain a wide field of view (almost 180 degrees!) You need a significant amount of resolution. If you ever had done fish eye photography, you’ll notice you get a lot more in the shot, but your FOV affects your ability to zoom in. My image quality looks pretty good, but I had to upgrade to the 4K cloud recording for 2.99/mo. I did this on my main camera and did side by side comparisons. The 4K version is noticeably sharper. I have the pro 2 as well, and I think they get you a similar result to the 4K, not as good, but they also don’t have nearly as wide of a FOV. So to get that extra FOV and the detail in the pro 2, you might want to upgrade your cloud recording to 4K. Reason from arlo’s POV, is that if everyone started recording 4K their storage costs would triple. My HD and 4K file sizes are about 3x the size. So I understand why the premium...

[Apanew]

I understand about not getting 4K cloud recording without the subscription. How about simply viewing or streaming at 4 K? Yes, this was advertised as 4K camera but it is not capable of 4 K, only faux 4K. That is most likely the problem. Like you mentioned, it is not a matter of view angle because 120 does not improve the view. I would be OK with the image clarity of pro2 which is only 1080. I should at least expect that. You make a good point about why Arlo charges for 4K cloud recording but that is a different issue that will affect them positively or negatively in the market place. That is not my current issue. I just want to see a clear image - at least to the same clarity as pro2 - on these cameras.

[Apanew]

Quality on any recording does not appear to be as good as 1080 regardless of angle of view. I am really confused.

[jsturess]

So what you are saying is, a motion triggered recording in 4K HDR with 180 field of view is not good as 1080p from pro 2 ?

Please attach pictures so we can see

Dont use, manual recording and auto-zoom and Tracking  this will only make the recording in 1080p

And if you dont have paid for the 4K cloud service you need to have local storage in the hub to get 4K.

So please attach the video from you're SD card to this topic so we can compare

 

[Apanew]

This is not from SD card. Do I need to go to SD card to get the best view? This is simply taking a picture of the scene with both cameras viewing the same scene. This compares apples to apples right? As I mentioned, I have tried several ways to adjust image on Ultra but no improvement. 

[StephenB]

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@Apanew wrote:

This is not from SD card. Do I need to go to SD card to get the best view? This is simply taking a picture of the scene with both cameras viewing the same scene. This compares apples to apples right? As I mentioned, I have tried several ways to adjust image on Ultra but no improvement. 

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You are just taking a snapshot from the web UI, correct?  If so, that would compare apples to apples.  Though putting them into a pdf might muddy the waters a bit (since they might be processed when you do that).  You could also take two videos, and share them here with two download links.

FWIW, I am seeing some differences of course - the field of view and the camera positioning is different.  But I am not seeing a striking difference in the quality of your two snapshots.

[jsturess]

Can youre monitor display 4k?

[Apanew]

OK, I get it if you are not seeing a striking difference but is the Ultra (even at 1080) better than the pro2? Is this what I should expect of Ultra? I can assure you that the image on the screen and pdf are about the same. The 2 cameras are pointing almost at identical areas. Changing Ultra field of view to 150 or 120 does not help. I sent videos to level 2 tech support and they said they see a huge difference. They agree ultra is cloudy!

[Apanew]

Yes

[StephenB]

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@Apanew wrote:

 I sent videos to level 2 tech support and they said they see a huge difference. They agree ultra is cloudy!

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Let's see what they have to say then.  In the meantime, you could share the videos here (using a google drive or dropbox link) if you want.

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@Apanew wrote:

OK, I get it if you are not seeing a striking difference but is the Ultra (even at 1080) better than the pro2? 

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Personally I don't recall seeing a huge difference between them in daylight at 1080p, though I haven't aimed a Ultra and a Pro 2 at the same scene for a while.   The color saturation is different - the Ultra is definitely "cooler".  But as I mentioned above, I think the Pro 2 is oversaturated - the Ultra comes closer to matching what my eyes see.

As has been mentioned already, the field of view does make a difference.  There is a concept of "pixels per foot" (taking the pixels across the width, and dividing that by the width of the field of view in feet).   There is a related measure of pixels per degree.  All things being equal, higher ppf or ppd will give more detail.  At 120 degrees, you have 16 pixels per degree (1920/120).  At 150 degrees, that drops to 12.8.  If the ultra is running at 4K, then ppd is 25.6 (3840/150).  Though the compression also factors into this.

Though for my purposes, the larger field of view of the ultra is better for me (even if the ppf is less when I use the 180 degree FoV).

[jsturess]

Just a notice: Arlo manual says Only 180 FoV is recorded in 4 K

[Apanew]

I did not know that. The impression I got from others is that 120 deg should give better resolution. The whole thing does not make "common" sense. My biggest problem is the "white" haze over everything. If I can just find a way to get rid of it, Ill live with whatever resolution I end up with

[Apanew]

Got it. Do you per chance know why ultra appear to have a white haze? That is my biggest problem resolution apart. 

[StephenB]

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@jsturess wrote:
Just a notice: Arlo manual says Only 180 FoV is recorded in 4 K

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No, it doesn't.  Perhaps post the quote where you think it says that.

[jsturess]

Page 28

Local 4K streaming and recording

4K means you can see more details in every image, even when zoomed in. Arlo Ultra outputs 3840 x 2160 resolution at a 16 x 9 aspect ratio.

Arlo Ultra streams 4K while providing the following:

• 180-degree diagonal field of view that does real-time image de-warping
• Real-time high dynamic range (HDR)
• An integrated spotlight with dual noise-cancelling microphones

[StephenB]

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@jsturess wrote:

Page 28

Local 4K streaming and recording

4K means you can see more details in every image, even when zoomed in. Arlo Ultra outputs 3840 x 2160 resolution at a 16 x 9 aspect ratio.

Arlo Ultra streams 4K while providing the following:

• 180-degree diagonal field of view that does real-time image de-warping
• Real-time high dynamic range (HDR)
• An integrated spotlight with dual noise-cancelling microphones

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That text doesn't say that 4K is limited to 180 degree field of view.  It says that 4K can provide up to  an 180-degree field of view.  

[st_shaw]

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@Apanew wrote:

Got it. Do you per chance know why ultra appear to have a white haze? That is my biggest problem resolution apart. 

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Ultra seems more susceptible to lens flare than the Pro2.  Try aiming it down, placing it under an eave, or similar, to avoid having bright sky in the field of view, and see if that helps. Also try to mount it to avoid any sources of reflection of the IR illuminator back into the lens such as siding or foliage.