Camera recording but no video on portal - New thread

[pjama]

I'm starting a new thread for missing videos but more specifically when I know they're being recorded but they aren't being uploaded to the portal as well as no notification.

I've reported this problem before in the no video threads but I think it's a similar symptom in that there's no video on the portal but different in that I KNOW the camera is recorded either because of the video being on the SDCard when I checked or the IR lights were on and visible.

I noted the latest firmware VMB5000-1.12.3.2_134_185068d has been installed on my base station and rebooted it but this issue is still happening.

Yesterday there were 2 instances on one camera at about 5pm and one on another camera at 11pm that I know recorded but there was no notification and no video on the portal. There were recordings about 1/2 hour either side of the 5pm events that did upload. I KNOW the cameras recorded because the recordings were on the SD card. If there was no SDCard this would obviously manifest as no recording at all.

My network is fine as far as I know, it's gigabit throughout and 20Mbps upload to the internet. On one instance when videos weren't getting uploaded, I tested and could ping google with no problems. That's obviously a bit different to uploading a multi MB video file but connectivity to the internet was there.

Can this be looked at by Arlo? My feeling is it's a capacity/availability problem at the upload server and/or the base station gives up to easily when testing availability to upload. Perhaps Arlo is a victim of it's own popularity and needs to upgrade capacity?

[pjama]

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@pjama wrote:

Update: I've had 2 full days since I changed things and it DOES appear mode related. Two days probably isn't enough but I'm updating hoping others could chime in.

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Sigh... It looks like I spoke too soon. This afternoon, my wife passed three cameras, B, D then C. All three recorded videos that are on the SDCard but only that from C in the portal/cloud/library. The mode was Schedule with Armed as active.

[Kammfam]

Still happening... I have a thumbnail showing on the website this morning on one of my cameras, but the Video Library shows zero recordings for today.

Will there ever be a point when we can view our videos directly from our SD cards without having to remove them?

[pjama]

@Kammfam Thanks, keep it coming. I had another chat to Arlo support again and I'm not sure the message has gotten through about this problem yet. I've asked for it to be escalated and am currently awaiting a call back.

For the record, it happened again last night, even after, suspecting I should be getting more alerts, I changed my mode directly to alarmed and rebooted the base station.

I'm also finding the new android app is not sending alerts when it should. I've got all smart alerts on but last night, arlo videod a cat walking past, uploaded it to the cloud but I did not get an alert.... sigh. I don't want to make this part of this thread, just pointing it out that it complicates things.

[pjama]

Update: I've just had chat number 4 with Arlo support. This is reeallly slow progress. My case is being looked into by a higher level but thre's no indication of how high or by who.

I know this problem is still happening but I don't have specifics because I've stopped looking.

IMHO this is a bug. There seems to not be enough persistence or resilience to upload videos. Possibly internetwork latency or server availability/proximity although I have sneaking suspicion AWS servers have been located in my region recently. If so, well done Arlo 🙂

[Mjbeuke]

I have more recently noticed this same issue and just posted about it in another thread not knowing this one existed.

I’ve frequently seen where I can see my camera recording in the app after being triggered by motion - only to find a few minutes later that there’s is no recording on the cloud.

I have a mix of 2 Ultra and 5 Pro 2’s - I’ve only noticed it on the Ultra cameras so far but will continue to test and report back to this thread. Today I am totally resetting my system.... removing all cameras, lights, base stations, etc and adding them all back after a full hard reset. I want to eliminate any issues there and start fresh for my testing.

@JamesC this is what I just mentioned in the other thread if you don’t mind to get this on the docket to review and resolve with the Arlo team!

[StephenB]

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@Mjbeuke wrote:

I have a mix of 2 Ultra and 5 Pro 2’s

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Do you have two base stations?  There is a limit of 5 simultaneous streams for each base. 

[Kammfam]

Yep, mine is only my Ultras as well. I've never noticed it happening on my Pro2 cameras.

And StephenB- where did you get that information about only 5 cameras per base station? I have 5 Ultras and 3 Pro2's on my current base station, and they work fine.

[Kammfam]

Stephen- I just found what you're talking about. The 5 camera limit has to do with live streaming, not how many cameras you can have connected to each base.

[StephenB]

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@Kammfam wrote:

Stephen- I just found what you're talking about. The 5 camera limit has to do with live streaming, not how many cameras you can have connected to each base.

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It is about streaming, not the camera count.  But it's not just about live streaming.  Recording counts too (as would CVR).  So if you have multiple cameras triggering at the same time, you can hit the limit.

Also, it wouldn't surprise me if you end up hitting that limit with < 5 streams in some cases (which would be a bug of course).  So if you have another base, you might try firing it up and shifting some cameras to it.

[Kammfam]

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It is about streaming, not the camera count.  But it's not just about live streaming.  Recording counts too (as would CVR).  So if you have multiple cameras triggering at the same time, you can hit the limit.

But how is that related to the problem in this thread? The cameras ARE recording, but only to the SD card. They just aren't showing up on the web portal, or the portal will just show a thumbnail but no video.

[Mjbeuke]

Yes I have a Base Station (VMB4000) and a SmartHub (VMB5000) - I’m not currently using the base station due to the fact that it’s been plagued with horrendous firmware since May this year.... although I just heard an update was released that is supposed to fix many of the glaring issues with that base. I haven’t tried it yet but am tempted to do so.

As to Stephen’s point - I get that you can only have 5 live streams per base at once. I’m rarely streaming any more than 1-2 cameras at a time so that’s a non-issue for me. However I was not aware that if more than 5 were trying to record at once that it would hit a limit.... to my knowledge that’s never happened - and I’m inclined to think that wouldn’t happen unless someone has had a bonified experience or convo with Arlo explaining that is indeed the case.

Either way it’s a non issue and I don’t believe it to be the root cause of the issues with recordings not showing up in the Cloud server.

[StephenB]

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@Mjbeuke wrote:
However I was not aware that if more than 5 were trying to record at once that it would hit a limit.... to my knowledge that’s never happened

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Of course if can happen for some camera positionings, and it can also happen if the rules use extensive cross-triggering.

[StephenB]

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@Kammfam wrote:

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It is about streaming, not the camera count.  But it's not just about live streaming.  Recording counts too (as would CVR).  So if you have multiple cameras triggering at the same time, you can hit the limit.

But how is that related to the problem in this thread? The cameras ARE recording, but only to the SD card. They just aren't showing up on the web portal, or the portal will just show a thumbnail but no video.

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The limit is a base station limitation.  It's possible it is only up the base->cloud uplink - in which case the SD card might well include the recordings.  After all, the SD often does include recordings that are missing or corrupted in the cloud archive.

In any event, since there were more than 5 cameras connected to the base I thought it was worth exploring the possibility that there were just too many simulateous streams going to the cloud.

[Kammfam]

I suppose that might be an issue for some people, but it's certainly not for me. I never have more than 2 cameras being triggered at the same time. And my main camera that gets most activity is the one I'm constantly missing videos from, and that one usually is triggered by itself.

[pjama]

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The limit is a base station limitation.  It's possible it is only up the base->cloud uplink - in which case the SD card might well include the recordings.  After all, the SD often does include recordings that are missing or corrupted in the cloud archive.

In any event, since there were more than 5 cameras connected to the base I thought it was worth exploring the possibility that there were just too many simulateous streams going to the cloud.

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It's *possible* I suppose, but in my case I've got videos on the SDCard that aren't on the cloud for instances where only one camera should have caught the activity. I also have instances where multiple cameras should have caught activity but usually in possession as the action moves from one camera to another. I only have 4 cameras in total connected to the Ultra base station.

As an update to the case, I'm still waiting patiently for Arlo Support to get back to me with any advice or suggestions.

[Kiwi_Arlo]

Just chiming in on this thread to say I have this problem too.  Lots of videos on the SD card on the base station, but only a few visible in the app library.  I've only had the system for a couple of days and everything is on the latest firmware. 

I am using a geofenced mode, where 'away' is the standard armed profile, and 'home' is a custom one which is the same as armed, but doesn't send notifications. 

I will observe it for a few more days and then put in a report to Arlo, though based on others' experience in this thread I am dreading the time wasted in calling customer support...

[Kammfam]

I guess I need to open a support case too. I hate doing that because it just wastes hours of my time and never seems to resolve anything. But this is still happening, and I can't have a security system that shows me things only when it feels like it.

Something new this morning though... I saw a car go past my camera, nothing on the cloud (not even a thumbnail this time, which does sometimes show up), pulled the card... and there is one video there that isn't on the cloud, but it won't play on my computer, saying the file is corrupt! That's the first time I've run across that problem.

[LandJS]

I was happy with the last firmware update but one thing that's becoming more and more frequent to the point of irritation is when I go to devices and see a camera was triggered  because it is showing there but 10 hours later, nothing in the library.  This use to be occasional but is getting more and more frequent for some reason. 

[Kiwi_Arlo]

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@Kammfam wrote:

I guess I need to open a support case too. I hate doing that because it just wastes hours of my time and never seems to resolve anything. But this is still happening, and I can't have a security system that shows me things only when it feels like it.

I have the same reluctance to call support, for the same reason. But I figure that's the only way Arlo will get data on whether this is a widespread problem. Much as we might hope that they comb the forums for complaints bugs and proactively hunt them down, I doubt they do.

[Kiwi_Arlo]

Okay, so I might be making some progress by messing around with my settings.

I deleted the activity zones on my cameras, and voila, now I'm getting much closer to the same number of videos on my base station as are going into my library (and lots more alerts too).   Before I had dozens of recordings a day on the base station, and only a handful in the library.  Now I have the dozens a day in both places (almost). Can others replicate this finding?

To explain: I have a camera pointed at the front of my property and it is triggered by bigger passing traffic. Previously, I had an activity zone set up that excluded the top of the frame, to avoid unwanted recordings.  But I was finding that my cameras were  being triggered by in-zone motion (eg me standing right in front of them,) but quite often there was no recording turning up in the library . Despite the app movement icons going yellow, and at night, the white lights coming on.

Today I turned activity zones off, and  I had about 80 triggers during today showing on my SD card: about 74 of them ended up in my library. 

This is pretty odd though.  I had understood that setting activity zones prevented the camera recording activity outside the zone (cf the manual, page 22).  If that's the case, then when the activity zones are on, there shouldn't be recordings either on the base station or in the library.  It suggests that the manual is wrong, and activity zones don't actually prevent the camera from recording. Instead, it suggests that videos triggered by activity outside the zone are either deliberately not being uploaded to the library, or are being uploaded but  binned by Arlo's cloud system.

The further fly in the ointment is that even with activity zones off, there are still a few videos on my base station SD card that aren't making it to the cloud, so it's possible there's a second problem here.  Perhaps again Arlo's cloud system is making a decision to bin those.   

Whatever's going on, it's not ideal, because although I'm getting a much higher percentage of motion-triggered recordings on both the SD card and in the cloud, they're mostly ones I'd rather not have. 

But bottom line for me: turning on activity zones seems to prevent a greater proportion of even in-zone motion detection showing up in the library.

[StephenB]

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@Kiwi_Arlo wrote:

This is pretty odd though.  I had understood that setting activity zones prevented the camera recording activity outside the zone (cf the manual, page 22).  If that's the case, then when the activity zones are on, there shouldn't be recordings either on the base station or in the library. 

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There are two types of activity zones - "local" and "cloud".  Here's how it's supposed to work:

• "Local" activity zones are used in the newer cameras when the camera is AC powered.  In that situation, the camera itself is always analyzing the video, and only streams when it sees motion inside the zone.  The cloud and base station never see streams outside the zones (since the camera doesn't do them), so you'll never see recordings or notifications on those.
• "Cloud" activity zones are available with all Arlo cameras, and require a smart subscription.  They work even if the camera is battery powered (as most of mine are).  With cloud activity zones, all detected motion (inside and outside the zones) results in the camera streaming to the cloud.  The cloud will then figure out if the motion is in the zone or not.  If it is, then a recording (and a notification) is made.  If it's not, the stream isn't saved, and no notification is given.

It sounds to me like something might not be quite right in the cloud activity zones - since you are sometimes getting a notification even though the cloud didn't save the recording.  You probably should chat with support, since that isn't supposed to happen - and if it is, it should be fixed.  https://www.arlo.com/en-us/support/contact.aspx

One thing I'm not sure of - and that is whether the outside-zone streams are saved on the USB drive/SD card or not.  Though I do have micro SD cards in my base stations, I've never tried to tie out the recordings on the card with the ones in the cloud.  Maybe a mod ( @JamesC ?) can clarify that for us.

[Kammfam]

I've never used activity zones or geofencing or any other mode than Armed, and I have this issue. So I think it's probably just a coincidence that it seemed to change when you changed your activity zone settings.

[Kiwi_Arlo]

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@StephenB wrote:

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There are two types of activity zones - "local" and "cloud".  Here's how it's supposed to work:

• "Local" activity zones are used in the newer cameras when the camera is AC powered.  In that situation, the camera itself is always analyzing the video, and only streams when it sees motion inside the zone.  The cloud and base station never see streams outside the zones (since the camera doesn't do them), so you'll never see recordings or notifications on those.
• "Cloud" activity zones are available with all Arlo cameras, and require a smart subscription.  They work even if the camera is battery powered (as most of mine are).  With cloud activity zones, all detected motion (inside and outside the zones) results in the camera streaming to the cloud.  The cloud will then figure out if the motion is in the zone or not.  If it is, then a recording (and a notification) is made.  If it's not, the stream isn't saved, and no notification is given.

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 Thanks StephenB, that is a very helpful clarification.  That explains why I'm getting a very small subset of my SD card videos in my cloud library when I have activity zones switched on. My cameras are battery powered. 

One thing I'm not sure of - and that is whether the outside-zone streams are saved on the USB drive/SD card or not.  Though I do have micro SD cards in my base stations, I've never tried to tie out the recordings on the card with the ones in the cloud.  Maybe a mod ( @JamesC ?) can clarify that for us.

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My experience suggests that the outside zone streams are saved locally.

And that starts to give us what I think is a clue about what may be causing people's problems. What I suspect is happening to folks is that their camera is detecting motion, recording, saving locally to the SD card (if they have one), and then sending the video to the cloud.  There, for some reason, the cloud system is scanning the videos and not detecting what it should, binning the video and not sending it to the library or a notification.

Another alternative would be that the base station is not sending a few of the videos to the cloud for analysis.  I might see if I can monitor my router traffic when I'm getting a spate of the problem again and see if I can rule that out. 

[StephenB]

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@Kiwi_Arlo wrote:

My experience suggests that the outside zone streams are saved locally.

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And that is what I would have guessed.  It makes sense for the base station to save to the SD card as it is streaming to the cloud.   The cloud could tell the base station to delete that video later, but I think that would be an unusual design (and not what I'd personally want it to do).

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@Kiwi_Arlo wrote:

There, for some reason, the cloud system is scanning the videos and not detecting what it should, binning the video and not sending it to the library or a notification.

Another alternative would be that the base station is not sending a few of the videos to the cloud for analysis.  I

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Yes,

Though you all are getting notifications with no cloud videos, correct?  Although that doesn't rule out the base station being at fault, it does point more to the cloud.

[pjama]

@Kiwi_Arlo thankyou for your extensive testing and commentary. I only had one camera with a zone defined but the camera was not plugged into permanent power so I don't think the zone was having any effect. I've since deleted that zone and still had missing library videos after that. I didn't confirm for that instance that a video was on the SDcard but am pretty sure the camera should have detected motion as it was a car, some 3m away that would take up at least 25% of the frame.

@StephenB thanks for your clarification of zones and how they work. As mentioned above, I only had one zone on one camera but I've since deleted it. I did initially play with several zones on most of my cameras but deleted all those long ago, trying to solve this missing library videos issue.

Latest status: I've had the mode set to straight Armed for about 5 days now, I've got no zones on any cameras as of two days ago. I'm still missing videos in the library.

Latest update on support: A week ago I got a call from Arlo support which I unfortunately missed however this was followed up with an email requesting images of SDcard vs Library showing missing videos which I duly supplied. I followed that up with chat to arlo support 2 days ago and they assured me the image was attached to the case and that it was being "handled by the appropriate team". They couldn't give me any indication as to how long before I get any feed back.

I'm looking forward to getting this sorted.....