Ultra 2 and Ultra (3rd Gen – 2025 Release)

[nmjones]

I have 3 Ultra 2 cameras. I am considering getting a few more Ultra 2 cameras but I see that there has been an update since I purchased my cameras in early 2024. What is the difference between the Ultra 2 and the Ultra (3rd Gen - 2025 Release ?

[RichWood]

It's the same. The 3 just has usb-c rather than the magnetic plug. 

[StephenB · Accepted solution]

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@RichWood wrote:

It's the same. The 3 just has usb-c rather than the magnetic plug. 

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From the FAQ:

The Ultra Security Camera (3rd Gen) has a USB-C connector, making it compatible with all Essential accessories that have a USB-C connection. This camera does not support the older Base Stations, and its battery lasts 15% longer than the Ultra 2 battery.

On the battery, I believe it is actually the camera that is more power efficient.  I checked the battery, and my recollection is that it had the same Whr spec as the older camera.

[RichWood]

The old BaseStation works better than the SmartHubs and has an integrated siren and USB instead of microsd. That's why I'd go for the Ultra 2's. You can plug a ssd into the BaseStation and use the new solar panel which has all connectors included and never care about battery life. 

[StephenB]

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@RichWood wrote:

The old BaseStation works better than the SmartHubs and has an integrated siren and USB instead of microsd. That's why I'd go for the Ultra 2's. You can plug a ssd into the BaseStation and use the new solar panel which has all connectors included and never care about battery life. 

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That's an option now, but likely won't be for long (unless you purchase the cameras used).

FWIW, the VMB4540 smarthub also has usb instead of microSD.  But if you want the integrated siren you need the VMB4000. 

One consequence of going with the VMB4000 is that you lose direct access to local storage.  They are no longer manufactured, so you'd also be purchasing used.  Several folks here have reported that they cannot install this base.  It's not clear whether that is because

• the base they purchased has long out-dated firmware
• the base was never removed from the original owner's account
• of bugs in the app and/or my.arlo.com

@nmjones - If you have a smarthub, and don't care about the connectors then you can get either camera (perhaps buying on price).  If you have a VMB4000/VMB4500 or want to use existing solar panels or outdoor chargers, then you should go with the Ultra 2s.

[RichWood]

Dude do you even own these? Or do you just Google? The BaseStation and Ultra cameras play so much better together. The SmartHubs and Ultra cameras contribute to data loss corruption and green screen and pixilation problems. 

[StephenB]

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@RichWood wrote:

Dude do you even own these? 

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I suggest you drop the attitude.  I haven't attacked you in any of my posts.

I own several Ultras and one Ultra 3.  Somehow I missed the Ultra 2.  Plus I have a lot of other Arlo cameras.  I have deployed both the VMB4540 and VMB5000 smarthubs.  I had a VMB4000 running for quite a while, but it has failed and is in my eWaste pile.  Also a VMB3000 back in the day, but that is long gone.

I am not seeing data corruption with my Ultras (and I certainly know what to look for).  I am seeing it on my AVD1001, and will either replace that doorbell or connect to my home wifi when I get the chance.  Many issue there is that it isn't that simple to reset that particular model.

In general, the VMB4540 network has the same characteristics as the VMB4000 - 2.4 ghz wifi only, and like routers it is limited to FCC power limits in the US.  I never saw any range or connectivity difference betwen those two particular models when I had the VMB4000 in service.

The VMB5000s are dual band, and that can be a problem for outdoor placement.  5 ghz doesn't carry as far, and there can be some scenarios where the system seems to use 5 ghz when 2.4 ghz would more stable.  So I wouldn't be suprised if a VMB4000 works better than the VMB5000 for some people.  Mine work ok, but they are fairly close to the cameras they are paired with.

Although the VMB4000 hasn't been declared end-of-life, the handwriting is certainly on the wall.  They no longer sell it, so clearly they are no longer making it.  Any purchased now are either old inventory or used - and there are a lot of recent posts here from people who have been unable to install them.  Plus it looks like the Ultra 3 will never work with it.   

In any event, @nmjones already has a compatible hub, so has no need to purchase another unless the new cameras would be out of its range.  And I did suggest the Ultra 2 if his hub is a VMB4000 or VMB4500.

[RichWood]

I don't have any attitude? You just cut and pasted things so I asked. Chill. A ton of people nowadays have mesh routers so they pick up more channel interference using a dual band SmartHub. Plus, mesh routers will tell end users to create a 2.4 IoT network for their smart home devices. So why when you have all these routers scattered around your home, chuck in another dual band device. It makes no sense. That's why a ton of Arlo Ultra users had problems with green recordings and/or pixilation. It's IT 101. Minimize signal interference in a home, not increase it. 

[nmjones]

Thanks for the info. After I posted my question I did find the info you posted from the FAQ. I'm glad you reposted it for me because somehow I didn't see the statement that the Ultra 3rd Gen edition cameras do not work with the older base stations (VMB 4000 for me). I have some older cameras unsing that base station. I was looking a buying just the 3rd Gen cameras but now I guess I need to consider getting the camera and base station combo. Thanks again.

[RichWood]

I think Arlo is preparing to go cloud only (subscription $$$) and phase out the local recording. So hang on to the BaseStation as long as possible. Netgear/Arlo are both collectively doing some greedy things lately that I don't like. Like the Pan & Tilt cameras, I was told today...will never get SmartHub and/or BaseStation compatibility. Which is shameful. Arlo was great because they allowed us to control our data locally. I think that's going away. And don't listen to the other cut and pasted in here. He's drunk the Kool Aid. I have 2 SmartHub Ultras and I hate them. The Ultra's run just as good, if not better, with the BaseStation. Heck, they were originally sold together. Plus, that other guy said it himself, the dual band on the SmartHubs is basically pointless because your cameras are most likely outside and you have to penetrate exterior walls to reach them. 2.4 GHz is more likely the band that they will use, so don't flood your home with any other signal that will cause your Netflix or something to buffer. Keep it simple. Best of luck!

[alex_loo]

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@StephenB wrote:

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The VMB5000s are dual band, and that can be a problem for outdoor placement.  5 ghz doesn't carry as far, and there can be some scenarios where the system seems to use 5 ghz when 2.4 ghz would more stable.  So I wouldn't be suprised if a VMB4000 works better than the VMB5000 for some people.  Mine work ok, but they are fairly close to the cameras they are paired with.

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VMB5000 here.  Is there any way I can tell the smarthub to avoid using 5 Ghz?  Range is my preference.

Alex

[RichWood]

No. You can't hit the ip and there's no GUI. They don't give a lot of info on what it does. My firewall can see the flows and it does it's job, but that pulsing out like a router on its own closed network is so dumb. And they customers to get it as close to the cameras so you don't you get pixilation, so people just chuck these all over their homes then wonder why they wifi buffers? That's why I prefer the BaseStation. At least it's not blasting a dual band all over the place. They truly should just make an outdoor one on solar. 

[alex_loo]

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@RichWood wrote:

No. You can't hit the ip and there's no GUI. They don't give a lot of info on what it does. My firewall can see the flows and it does it's job, but that pulsing out like a router on its own closed network is so dumb. And they customers to get it as close to the cameras so you don't you get pixilation, so people just chuck these all over their homes then wonder why they wifi buffers? That's why I prefer the BaseStation. At least it's not blasting a dual band all over the place. They truly should just make an outdoor one on solar. 

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what is this "wifi buffers" about?

To me, the downside with ARLO's base/smarthub is that these boxes do not mesh between themselves.  Meaning I need to know which box to look up for local recordings for camera A, from the app.  Since next time when I want to view recordings for camera B, I might need to open up a different box, right?

And why in the first hand do these boxes NOT talk intranet directly to the cameras?  So my router mesh can take care of the wireless side, ARLO can focus on info dispatch (to cloud), and local storage.

Alex

[RichWood]

Sorry the spell check in this forum does weird stuff.

I meant with all that signal blasting around one's home will only create channel and signal interference causing TV's and other 5GHz devices to buffer.

But totally agree with you about the SmartHubs/BaseStations. I'd love to lose them all and just use my wifi. Then pay like $1000 for like an Arlo NVR rather than these crappy SmartHubs. But the SmartHubs and BaseStations do pass update flows daily to the cameras and the cameras send their data to it then to Arlo servers. Your Wi-Fi is only for the initial setup generally. I watch the flows through my firewall. Arlo is actually pretty good about not filling your network with obnoxious bidirectional flows compared to other smart home products that spy on you 24/7. Arlo just grabs camera data them passes it to their servers. Not a bunch of garbage bloat congestion like other devices.

[alex_loo]

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@RichWood wrote:

Sorry the spell check in this forum does weird stuff.

I meant with all that signal blasting around one's home will only create channel and signal interference causing TV's and other 5GHz devices to buffer.

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Hehe that's fine mate spell checks are always annoying.

But totally agree with you about the SmartHubs/BaseStations. I'd love to lose them all and just use my wifi. Then pay like $1000 for like an Arlo NVR rather than these crappy SmartHubs. But the SmartHubs and BaseStations do pass update flows daily to the cameras and the cameras send their data to it then to Arlo servers. Your Wi-Fi is only for the initial setup generally.

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To this point, I don't think ARLO even needs my WIFI, since it has its own ARLO dual band, right?  I don't remember even providing my WIFI password to any ARLO box (smarthub is wire connected).

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Arlo is actually pretty good about not filling your network with obnoxious bidirectional flows compared to other smart home products that spy on you 24/7. Arlo just grabs camera data them passes it to their servers. Not a bunch of garbage bloat congestion like other devices.

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well for argument's sake,  god knows if ARLO is spying 24/7 --- since it's using its own dual band + my wired internet connection at the back of its SmartHub.

The only reason I tend to trust ARLO more, as opposed to those much cheaper/ feature-advanced cameras, is that ARLO is not from China!

Alex

[RichWood]

Pick up a Firewalla. One of the best decisions I made years ago. It plays nice with Arlo. You will be shocked on how much these Smart Home devices phone home.  Scares the crap out of you. 

[RichWood]

And that wasn't a spell check issue. Firewalla. 

[RichWood]

This was the video I watched 3 years ago when I got it. Lol. You'd use this as your router, then put your mesh in AP mode and it runs fantastic and you will literally be God of your home network. https://youtu.be/9lnFC7l9UH0?si=NcWdpH9wxPIiSFLF

[StephenB]

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@RichWood wrote:

You just cut and pasted things so I asked. 

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I just quoted a bit from the FAQ in one of the replies.  There was other content on the battery (not quoted) also in that reply.

I will link to relevant KB articles and sometimes quote when think it is usually better not to re-phrase "official" Arlo statements.

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@RichWood wrote:

A ton of people nowadays have mesh routers 

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I have an Orbi 870 mesh myself.  I have suggested to Arlo that they allow my Ultras to connect to the smarthub using my mesh wifi - which would allow me to combine the better performance of the mesh with local storage in the smarthub.  FWIW, I don't think they quite get the use case.  

[RichWood]

I had the Orbi 960 for years. I recently tried the 870. It was the worst mesh system I ever tried. I'd return them immediately. 

[StephenB]

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@RichWood wrote:

He's drunk the Kool Aid.

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No Kool Aid here, I can and do criticize Arlo when I think that is justified.

My advice was to get an Ultra 2 if you have a VMB4000 or VMB4500 base; get either camera if you have a smarthub.  The reason is simple - the Ultra 3 is listed as compatible with the two smarthubs, but is not listed as compatible with the two older bases.  I didn't recommend purchasing a smarthub, I just said @nmjones needed one for the Ultra 3.  

Most of the rest of this discussion thread is off-topic (non-responsive to the original question).

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@RichWood wrote:

Arlo was great because they allowed us to control our data locally. 

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A bit of history here:

From the beginning Arlo's business model was built around a cloud infrastructure and a combination of subscription and camera revenue.  Originally all recordings were stored only in the cloud.  They provided free 7-day cloud storage for folks with 5 or fewer unsubsribed cameras. Later on (with the VMB4000) they added local backup storage.  The only way to see those recordings was (and is) to eject the storage using the app and browse the drive on a PC. 

They reluctantly added direct access to local storage back in 2019 - in response to the customer backlash when they dropped the 7-day free storage option for Ultra (and all future) cameras.  That feature was intentionally limited (that is, crippled), and Arlo has not improved it in any way over the past 6 years.  There are situations where it cannot be used. One increasingly common issue is that port forwarding and inbound VPN connections aren't available with ISPs that use CGNAT.  And it requires IPv4. 

If you go through my past posts, you'll find that when I answer questions on direct access to local storage, I almost always repeat its limitations.  That is to make sure that people understand what they are getting before they purchase a smarthub.

"Control over your data" isn't exactly true (and never was).  Legacy cameras store recordings in their cloud (assuming you stay under the 5 unsubscribed camera limit), and there is no way to limit recordings to local storage only.  And even if you don't subscribe with the new cameras, they will sometimes opt you into a trial subscription, which will again store your recordings in their cloud. 

And their subscription features require decoding of your video so their servers can analyze it.  So end-to-end encryption of your data is simply not possible if you have a subscription.  While end-to-end encryption of your video is technically possible if you don't have a subscription, Arlo has never said they use it.   

Recordings and AI analysis aside,  Arlo knows what mode your system is in (and when that changes), whether or not you are within the geofencing zone, when your cameras triggered, when you livestreamed them, etc...

The net here is that you need to trust Arlo to safeguard your data if you use their cameras. FWIW, the same is true with Ring, Nest, and other cloud-based systems.  IMO, if you want to ensure that all your surveillance camera data is local, your best option is to get an NVR system (which Arlo doesn't offer), and use a home VPN to access the recordings remotely.  Even with those solutions you need to be careful on what features you enable.

Personally I think Arlo should provide some free cloud storage to all customers.  Maybe not 7 days, but enough to make the systems useful without a subscription and without needing to purchase a smarthub.  I would also use the same traversal servers they use for remote livestreaming for direct access to local storage.  That would eliminate the need for port forwarding or a VPN.

I also think they need a less expensive subscription for folks who don't care about the AI features, but who do want cloud storage and activity zones.  

[RichWood]

Stephen, you seem like a fine person. But I think your tech skills are limited. You've already proven that in each interaction I've had with you. I think it's wonderful you like to help others. But I don't need your assistance. You jumped in on each post I've made on here. I saw that Arlo sucks lately on tech support, especially with the new Pan & Tilt cameras. So I decided to jump in here and actually try to help folks. This is precisely why I left the Beta Testing community. It's all filled with know it all people who actually don't know it all. So you stay in your lane and I'll stay in mine. 

[StephenB]

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@alex_loo wrote:

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To me, the downside with ARLO's base/smarthub is that these boxes do not mesh between themselves.  Meaning I need to know which box to look up for local recordings for camera A, from the app.  Since next time when I want to view recordings for camera B, I might need to open up a different box, right?

And why in the first hand do these boxes NOT talk intranet directly to the cameras?  So my router mesh can take care of the wireless side, ARLO can focus on info dispatch (to cloud), and local storage.

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FWIW, I am surprised that they didn't support home wifi connections with the Ultra 3 (as they have on Pro line).  I think that was a miss on their part.

 If it were my architecture I'd create a base that is only used for local storage.   Allow that base to be connected to the home network either using Ethernet or WiFi.  Keep the closed network for cameras that don't support home wifi, but as an option that can be turned off.  This base could store recordings for all Arlo cameras at the location, no matter how they are connected.

I don't think I'd put a mesh network capability in the bases.  That's not really Arlo's expertise, and as @RichWood points out there are drawbacks to having competing WiFi networks in your home.   I think they would be better off slowly transitioning to home-wifi connected setups.

I would also have ensured that their PoE adapter worked with all USB-C cameras and not just Essentials (providing both power and network to the Pro 6, Ultra 3, and the PT essentials).   PoE can't be jammed and is not subject to other interference that can impair WiFi.  So I think that was another miss.

[StephenB]

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@RichWood wrote:

But I think your tech skills are limited. 

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You have no idea what my technical skills are (and I have no idea what your technical skills are either).  So let's not go there.

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@RichWood wrote:

I saw that Arlo sucks lately on tech support, especially with the new Pan & Tilt cameras. So I decided to jump in here and actually try to help folks.

Which is great. 

Quarrelling is not so great.  I suspect we agree on more points than we disagree on.

[RichWood]

I noticed this when I purchased the Orbi 870's. Netgear took away the function to limit Transmit Power controls. On a mesh system that is extremely important. Not everyone lives in a 10,000 square foot mansion. Let's say if you live in a 3,000 square foot home, those devices are far too powerful to use together. So you need the ability to reduce power from the mesh system or devices will surely drop. Then I suppose the next step would be to tell end users to disconnect a node if devices were dropping because it's too powerful and devices were getting confused in-between nodes. Netgear had transmit power available on every Orbi system. I had it on the 960's. So it's just strange moves like this that makes me think they are now launching products far before they are ready for public consumption. Arlo, owned by Netgear, did the very same with the Pan & Tilt camera. It is a product that is a disaster at the moment. They are launching stuff nowhere near ready for primetime. They care about profits and no longer quality of their products and certainly barely care about us end users. That's why I jumped in here. Nowhere on the internet was anybody helping anybody on these Pan & Tilt cameras and that includes Arlo Support.