Which web browser is able to watch videos for the Ultra 2 cameras?

[Steve82759]

I purchased a $500+ Arlo Ultra 2 system with the 2 cameras & smartHub because I was told that it didn't require a monthly subscription to see the videos & that the battery life between charges was 6 months. Both were untrue. System was worthless without the subscription so I ended up buying the subscription. When I access Arlo thru my Windows 10 laptop using the latest version of Microsoft Edge, I am unable to watch any of my videos in my library because my browser is not compatible. The only way I can watch them is if I save the video to my hard drive first which is something I don't want to do considering the several videos it takes. So with Edge not working, IE unsupported & phasing out, which browser does work to watch Ultra 2 4K videos in the Arlo app when I click the video in the library?

[StephenB]

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@Steve82759 wrote:

 When I access Arlo thru my Windows 10 laptop using the latest version of Microsoft Edge, I am unable to watch any of my videos in my library because my browser is not compatible. 

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First check and see if your laptop has HEVC decoding hardware.  Almost all newer models do.  If it does, then try installing the HEVC browser extension. Note it costs $0.99, though some laptop manufacturers will give you a coupon code you can redeem using this link. 

[LandJS]

No that browser extension hasn't worked since Microsoft went to the Edge Chromium version.  It takes hardware capability with the computer to view now on any browser except Safari if your a Apple person and I've heard even that now has issues.  If you have an 11th generation I7 it has the video capabilities to view HEVC with no issues.  Not sure if those have been added to other newer chips.  I know the 10th gen I7 gaming machine I tested couldn't.  I did add android to my older laptop and it worked but was choppy on a older I5 chip.  Microsoft was talking of adding Android to an upcoming version and Windows 11 is out in beta but can't say if they followed through.  That would allow for apps from Google play store.

[StephenB]

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@LandJS wrote:

No that browser extension hasn't worked since Microsoft went to the Edge Chromium version. 

That's definitely not the case.

I have a pretty new dell laptop (10th generation Intel), and it did not play the my Arlo videos in Chromium Edge until I installed the extension.  Once I installed it, they played with no problem.   I also have a 5 year old Lenovo desktop that also plays my Ultra recordings with Chromium Edge (again, with the browser extension).

It does require that the chipset be capable of 4K HEVC playback (2K in the case of the Pro3/Pro4). 

[LandJS]

Well glad for you but mine all quit after the change and I have the extension.  Also a question to  Microsoft said it would no longer work so unless there is a new one that didn't exist two years ago don't know what to tell you.  Spend the .99 and find out.  I am looking at my wife's HP with the extension as I write and it's not working.

[StephenB]

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@LandJS wrote:

 Spend the .99 and find out.  I am looking at my wife's HP with the extension as I write and it's not working.

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I installed it on the Dell laptop a couple of months ago (though I avoided paying the $.99).  But I installed it quite a bit earlier on the Lenovo desktop.

Do you know what chipset the HP is using?  I think the extension enabled a software decoder in the original edge browser if there was no hardware support, but that it won't do that with Chromium edge.  Also, perhaps make sure that Edge is set up to use hardware acceleration in edge://settings/system 

[Steve82759]

I was not sure if I have the HEVC, but I paid the $0.99 a few months back & downloaded the extension. It did not work. Sometimes though, it will play the 1st video I look at & errors on the rest. I have an HP laptop with an Intel I3-5020U dual core processor. 

[StephenB]

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@Steve82759 wrote:

 I have an HP laptop with an Intel I3-5020U dual core processor. 

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That is a broadwell (5th generation) chipset.  It supports GPU-accelerated HEVC, but the acceleration is partial.

You might see if you are running the most recent graphic driver (checking the HP support site).  There should be a tool to scan your software to check if it is up to date (not sure what that tool is for HP).

[LandJS]

I have 3 HP's all updated on a regular basis and it matters not.  The fact is that they all worked fine under the original Edge using the extension and none work with the change to Edge Chromium.  There are 100's of complaints about this on Microsoft sites and has been ever since the new Edge came out.  The .99 extension did work on the first couple of releases but ended as the new Edge updated.  It has always been true that with the right hardware there was no issue but that wasn't the majority of systems.  With my newer system I didn't even need the extension added.  So likely yours simply has all the needed hardware but for 100's of others that isn't the case and short of buying new hardware that isn't going to change unless Edge changes.

[dcfox1]

I have a surface tablet and it works with Edge. I doubt there is any hardware acceleration on it. It didn't show 2k until late 2020. Not sure what changed. 

[LandJS]

personally all I can swear to is my Dell and HP I5's quit with the new Edge possibly Microsoft made a change but weren't planning on it and the current complaints show it.  However for me, the 11th generation I7 (possibly even I5, haven't checked) have the video capabilities for it built right into the chip and it's handled in the chip unless you choose additional video chips such as a gamer might.  Then it's still on the chip but duties are shared depending on your added video and how the sharing is set up.  With my newer set up if I go to browser extensions it can't even find one on the Microsoft store for HEVC.  Will have to fire up the old HP and see what shows up.

[LandJS]

OK so after seeing where dcfox1 mentioned his began working again in late 2020 I updated everything Windows related on my wife's computer and she can now view the library again so yes there has been a change.  Not sure though what changed in edge because even hers after updates and working says can't find HEVC when searching browser extensions.  Perhaps Microsoft found a way to get around paying for the use of HEVC to make it work.  Now it's what will Windows 11 do to things.  Already don't like some of the new desktop

[StephenB]

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@LandJS wrote:

 though what changed in edge because even hers after updates and working says can't find HEVC when searching browser extensions.

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FWIW, the desktop that also shows the library is a skylake (8th generation) processor (  i7-6700T )

I installed the extension manually on the 10th generation Dell back in March.  Before then it didn't render the 4K videos from my Ultra.

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@LandJS wrote:

It has always been true that with the right hardware there was no issue 

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I agree that you always needed hardware with GPU acceleration.  Though that wasn't enough on my systems (even after I switched to Chromium Edge).  It is possible that something changed in Edge after March.

[LandJS]

https://caniuse.com/#feat=hevc will show what browsers work with HEVC which isn't many.  One vers. of edge with hardware acceleration is it, unless of course the list hasn't been updated.

[StephenB]

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@LandJS wrote:

https://caniuse.com/#feat=hevc will show what browsers work with HEVC which isn't many.  One vers. of edge with hardware acceleration is it, unless of course the list hasn't been updated.

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It is outdated wrt Edge, as I am able to view 4K using Edge 91.0.864.67 (the current version).  As we've already discussed, this is on PCs that have HEVC support in their GPUs.

Low adoption in browsers is largely because of licensing costs (compounded by the various patent holders forming three different patent pools). Browsers are freeware, and deployed at huge scale - so the vendors are very sensitive to any royalties (esp if they are not capped).  FWIW, H.266 (VVC) - the most recent H codec - has a similar licensing mess.

The H.265 (HEVC) licensing mess resulted in the formation of the Alliance for Open Media, which standardized AV1 a while back and is currently working on AV2.  AOM codecs are all royalty free.  AV1 is similar in performance to H.265 and is positioned as the successor to VP9.  Hardware support is starting to show up - for instance, the current generation of Intel chipsets has hardware AV1 decode.

However, this won't help us with Arlo videos.  The HEVC encoding is done in the camera hardware - and transcoding it to something else in the cloud will reduce the quality (which would be a really bad thing, since the bitrate is already marginal).

The direct solution would be for Arlo to provide apps for Windows and macOS, so we wouldn't be forced to use the browser. Another approach would be for Arlo to have an option to encode 2K and 4K as H.264 (since the camera hardware can do that) - but they would need to double the bitrate when that option is selected.  

[dcfox1]

@StephenB  I guess Microsoft surface tablet has HVEC support built in then since I started seeing 2K late 2020. Can't say 4K since I don't have an Ultra. 

[LandJS]

If it's outdated, and I wouldn't be surprised then so is Arlo support because that's where I got it.  lol

[LandJS]

The latest explanation of how this currently works is best explained this way when it comes to edge.  Edge doesn't actually do the work but downloads them to the OS which downloads them to the hardware ( the reason for hardware need with edge ) the effect is the same because you see them in the browser but from Microsoft's view, they don't pay the licensing , it was paid by the chip maker.

[dcfox1]

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@LandJS wrote:

The latest explanation of how this currently works is best explained this way when it comes to edge.  Edge doesn't actually do the work but downloads them to the OS which downloads them to the hardware ( the reason for hardware need with edge ) the effect is the same because you see them in the browser but from Microsoft's view, they don't pay the licensing , it was paid by the chip maker.

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So a chip in a cheap tablet can process it? 

[StephenB]

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@dcfox1 wrote:

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So a chip in a cheap tablet can process it? 

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Most reasonably new Android and IOS devices have the needed hardware, as well as most newer PCs.

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@LandJS wrote:

The latest explanation of how this currently works is best explained this way when it comes to edge.  Edge doesn't actually do the work but downloads them to the OS which downloads them to the hardware 

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That is linked to the hardware acceleration setting in the browser - if that is set then videos would be decoded by the GPU.

FWIW, the license cost on the hardware is covered by the PC or mobile device manufacturer, not the chip manufacturer.  The chip manufacturer can cover that cost for their downstream customers, but AFAIK none of them do.

Generally the browser vendors also include software decoding as a fallback - and that would require its own royalty payments.  But that does not appear to be the case with Chromium Edge. So it's not clear why Microsoft charges anything, since AFAICT they aren't incurring any cost.  

[dcfox1]

@StephenB  I have a 2 year old Microsoft Surface Tablet so guess it does also. 

[LandJS]

Well if what I said is wrong then the experts are wrong but I would choose to believe them more so than a Arlo forum so to each their own.

[Steve82759]

If you don't think it's Microsoft Edge, then why when I'm using the App in Edge & trying to run it, get the error from Arlo stating "This video is not able to play in your browser. Please download to view." & when I download the video to my hard drive & then try and play it, it plays just fine? 

[LandJS]

steve82759 Always the computer has had to have the hardware capability and not just for HEVC just ask a gamer.  Video chips have different abilities and that all affects the costs and what they can do also requires them to pay for doing so for some some things.  All I had to do to watch HEVC in the original edge was pay for the extension because Microsoft had to pay.  With the new edge they no longer include that ability and for a year there has been 1000's of complaints not just for Arlo but even Netflix users and Microsoft said they were working on a work around.  I lost the ability to view Arlo as you did and had to download to view.  My older HP had the ability to view HEVC but no longer through the browser.  Dc said his returned in late 2020 so I updated everything on the older HP and yes it now works again but the hardware to do so is still needed.  My newer 11th gen i7 has the video in the chip itself and that has worked from day one.  Searching for browsers and HEVC lead to techs who state that the hardware requirement is still there but the latest edge passes it off to the OS which passes it to the hardware.  That I guess was the work around and why those with the hardware capable machines can again view in edge.    My HP's are 6 years old and I did have to download a viewer to view HEVC but that was aside from the browser.  It sounds as if yours has the ability and so I wonder if you have the latest version of edge.

[StephenB]

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@LandJS wrote:

 It sounds as if yours has the ability and so I wonder if you have the latest version of edge.

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Windows Update would have upgraded the original edge to Chromium Edge by now.

@Steve82759, there are a lot of different Surface products out there, but if you have the Surface Go (10 inch 2-in-1) purchased about 2 years ago, then you should have a Kaby Lake (7th generation) processor.  Intel rolled out full HEVC hardware support in their 6th generation processors (Skylake).

@LandJS:  FWIW, I sent you a PM a few days ago.