New Smart Plan Subscription Pricing 12/13/19

[CaliArloUser]

Over the last two weeks I have bought eight more Pro2 cameras, another VMB400 base station and a WMB4050 base to add to my existing five camera Pro2/VMB 4000 system at a cost of $1,200. It was my intention to eventually expand this even further to 20 Pro2 cams. Went to subscribe to the $14.99/mo Elite plan today, 12/13/19, only to find a shocking price increase/camera limit decrease in the subscription plans was also announced today. It is my understanding that  anyone who already had an existing Premier or Elite plan will not be effected by this change and their plan costs/cam count will remain the same and if I had signed up yesterday (guess I should have but I was busy spending $1,200 on more Arlo gear) I also would be able to have up to 20 Pro2 cams for $14.99 a month. Does Arlo think customers like me who spent $1,200 on more hardware immediately before this subscription plan change are now going to also pay $390 a year for 20 Pro2 cams while other customers only have to pay $180 a year for the same exact service? I don't need or want 2 or 4k video, I only need Pro2 1080p cameras. Why wasn't a separate plan for those of us who only have, and will only ever have, Pro2 1080p cams introduced? Why does Arlo think it's ok to now charge some customers more than twice the amount of money for the same exact service others are getting? Why couldn't the $9.99/10 cam & $14.99/20 cam subscriptions have remained the same but been modified for 1080p cameras only and separate subscription plans for 2K and 4K cams been added. Before I even had the chance to get a plan and hook up these new cams/bases I now have to pay more than 2x as much as others for the same 20 camera Pro2  subscription service? This is not right nor fair at all to those of us wanting to simply add more Pro2 cameras, what is Arlo thinking with this extreme egregious pricing change?? Why would I want to keep the $1,200 in product I just bought on top of the $600 I had previously spent only to now have to additionally spend over 2x as much as others for a subscription plan that offers me absolutely nothing more for my money? Can anyone  from Arlo please explain this to me or tell me why I wouldn't want to return everything I just bought? I was a happy Arlo customer but to say I am now an extremely unhappy Arlo customer would be putting it mildly.

[Mavrrick]

@LandJS VPN as a service wont do anything for you to get access to your home network. You need a Router that supports openVPN it or setup some other edge device to allow VPN access.

The easiest way to do it would be a raspberry pi on your network with OpenVPN. Then you would still need a port forward to get to it though.

People that are claiming portforwarding is bad do have a point to some extent, but also dont understand how networks work. You have to punch a whole in your edge device in some way for traffice to get into your network. The problem with port forwarding is the service you enable by doing so then should be secure. From what I can tell with some basic tests is Netgear did some due diligence with securing the Basestation.

[LandJS]

Mavrrick, I have a router that supports open VPN, my provider has no issue with it but also told me I must use a VPN provider to use it.  Cost is anywhere from $6 to $20 per month.

[LandJS]

JackMalin, not sure what press release they would be referring to, the last one for Dec I can find anywhere using two search engines and Arlo's own press release link is Dec 4 and has nothing to do with plans or fees

[Mavrrick]

What do you mean your provider?  Your ISP? That person doesn't know what they are talking about. VPN is a technology.  Many are confusing it with VPN as a service which is what things like EasyVPN, or NordVPN are. Openvpn is a software suite that has both a server and client piece and is open source. Some router firmware have the OpenVPN Server component backed into them.  When your router has the server software loaded in it's firmware all you need is the client on your portable device. If your Router supports vpn then all you need to do is create the client/Cert config on the router and then load it on your client device. I have actually set this up myself and can assure you, you don't need to pay anyone for it. The only catch is some Internet providers don't allow your home ip to be available to the internet. It is something called a GNAT. In that case there may be a small fee to your internet provider to give you a static ip on the internet.

Any assertion that you need to pay a fee just to have a vpn to your home is just wrong and conveying misinformation. Perhaps you should review this link about how to setup a VPN on a raspberry pi for $35.

[LandJS]

Yes my ISP.  My router has open VPN capabilities but he said they don't deal with it and I would need to get the info from a VPN provider and mentioned a couple.  Perhaps his meaning was that they don't allow it and I would need to use one like those you mentioned.  It will all change in the near future for me anyway as soon as star link starts service I'm hoping a second antenna on my RV will give me my service anywhere I go.  Thanks for the info.

[Mavrrick]

But you are still missing my point VPN as a service won't give you access to your home network. I would suggest reading your router manual instead of talking to your ISP. I would bet that if you read the manual and if it has a section on setting up a VPN it will tell you how to configure it completely without paying a provider for the VPN Service

VPN as a service is basically used to hide the source of your traffic so that all of your traffic looks like it is coming from somewhere else. That  doesn't give you access to home.

[LandJS]

Well this has gotten a little off subject but I went through 4 youtube videos and The guided Asus instructions to find out my provider would need to set the root device up for port forwarding before my router can use the open VPN.  So I'm done for now until I change providers.  Thanks for the info

[Jack-Malin]

Arlo has closed my case 41542306 where I was trying to get back my 10 camera plan at the original price (that was the legacy plan that supposedly was/is/was supposed to be grandfathered).  I did NOT get my legacy plan restored. The issue is from my standpoint UNRESOLVED.

It is quite evident that there are a number of people on various threads with the same or very similar issues.

These are people who appear to have spent between $1,000 and $5,000 in Arlo products - I spent $2,000. Many if not all mentioned the subscription price and terms as an important factor in initially choosing Arlo. It was certainly the case for me.

It is disappointing that Arlo decided not to take care of some of their most important and loyal customers with a solution that would have been relatively simple and inexpensive and in the overall schema of things a very good investment on their part. I suspect that many of these customers will be looking at alternatives.

What is the cost of that?

Perhaps is time for an Arlo case study at The Wharton School 🙂

PS: The customer service representatives, including the ones here on the community forums, have generally been kind and tried to be helpful. Thanks to you all.

[StephenB]

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@LandJS wrote:

Yes my ISP.  My router has open VPN capabilities but he said they don't deal with it

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my provider would need to set the root device up for port forwarding 

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Your ISP might well not provide help with setting up a VPN.  That doesn't mean that they'd block it.  Just that they don't offer advice.  

I rather confused on the second part.  Can you provide the link here?  All the routers I've owned support port forwarding, and I've never needed help from my ISP to set that up.   Did your ISP provide you with the router,  or is it something you've purchased?

FWIW, you don't need to use port forwarding if you have openVPN.  Part of the idea here is to not forward ports.

This is off topic- I am a bit surprised the mods didn't move this part off to a different thread.

[teri52]

I wish I had read this thread before purchasing my 11th Arlo Camera,  I would have selected a different vendor!   I thought I'd done due diligence in my research before making that purchase,  but I probably should have known better after my prior experiences with their customer support on previous unrelated Arlo issues, and their lack of "concern" about the customer in those encounters.

Luckily I still have my legacy Arlo Smart plan which will support up to 10 cameras and realize now that I need to be sure to never accidentally cancel or change that plan.  Sadly, I now realize that I can't add any additional Arlo cameras without experiencing major cost increases in my service plan.    I'm going to look into using other vendor camera systems instead of using that 11th Arlo camera I just purchased.  Won't be as convenient but what choice do I have?

In the short term (1-3 years) I hope to limp along using the investment in my existing 10 camera Arlo system as best I can using my grandfathered Arlo Elite plan, even though I can no longer expand with additional cameras at reasonable cost under the Arlo pricing structure.   For additional cameras, I'll expand using a new vendor and in the long term eventually replace all of the Arlo cameras.  If Arlo changes their policies in the next 1-3 years I might reconsider, but the way I feel right now is that Arlo won't make such a decision unless they lose a large percentage of their customer base and I'm not sure I would stay with a company that would be on the brink of failing anyway.

I  don't trust Arlo any longer to treat me fairly as a customer and so I'm not going to bother with looking at other technical alternatives, such as opening ports or using VPN routes, to continue using Arlo in the longer term.   As I said, I'll use this opportunity to start working with new vendors as I make my purchase for new cameras.   Hopefully those new vendors will be smarter about taking care of existing customer base.   I'll chalk my failure to research Arlo fully as a learning experience and hopefully do a better job in choosing my future home security vendor.

[LandJS]

StephenB,  My ISP provides a modem router but their wi-fi isn't turned on because it would cost more per month and I own a great router already.  So my router plugs into theirs and works good enough for my phone to get it 500 feet away at the county road and can stream 4K to an RV 100 feet away.  It has walk through instructions on setting up the open VPN but then gets to a point that tells me the root router (that is the ISP's) must have port forwarding turned on to continue.  I cannot access their router to make changes and so would need to pay for a service call.  Not worth the trouble since we will be changing providers when Starlink is up and running which is supposed to be by Fall for the US and Canada

[StephenB]

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@Mavrrick wrote:

I don't even see on my account how I can choose what 5 cameras get free cloud recording anymore.

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If you go into subscriptions and then manage cameras, you can move cameras out of the subscriptions.  Obviously you want to move out cameras that are eligible for free cloud recordings.

[StephenB]

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@LandJS wrote:

StephenB,  My ISP provides a modem router but their wi-fi isn't turned on because it would cost more per month and I own a great router already.  So my router plugs into theirs 

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Thanks for clarifying.  I also use back-to-back routers, but in my case I do have full control over the one from the ISP.

When you double route, you either need to put the inner router in the DMZ of the outer router, or you need to forward specific ports from the outer router to the inner one.   So OpenVPN won't work for you (since you'd still need to forward its ports in the outer router).

You might be able to purchase a modem, but if you are planning to change ISPs soon it probably isn't worth it.  Also, you might lose some other services (a landline phone or cable TV services sometimes require using the ISP-supplied modem).  In my own case, on-demand TV and the TV program guide both require using the ISP router.

If you do go with Starlink, it'd be interesting to hear how that goes.

[LandJS]

Hopefully I can tell you before to long.  My ISP is one that goes around buying up smaller ones and then milking them but it's my only choice at the moment other than what satellite is now available which is to expensive, to limited and to much lag.  The low orbit is supposed to cure that and the promise is faster than what anyone now offers at better prices.  It does require purchase of an antenna  and I'm hoping they allow a second on a RV.  If you've ever done that most parks are still in the stone age.  Whether the promise is reality remains to be seen.  I think we've learned that with a new Arlo company.

[VeryOldboy]

Well, for me I chose Arlo for quality and reasonable cost.  A year later they completely reprice everything...I am glad I only have 3 cameras from them.   They are totally unpredictable and there is no way I am going to tie myself up to someone who is ready to change pricing at will like this.   Given the initial investment need and the running cost I need predicatability.

No more Arlo cameras for me. 

[StephenB]

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@VeryOldboy wrote:

They are totally unpredictable and there is no way I am going to tie myself up to someone who is ready to change pricing at will like this.  

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I'm thinking that if I took this approach to my internet provider, I'd likely have no internet service.  Just saying...

Since you have only 3 cameras there shouldn't be much (if any) cost impact on you.  In fact, if you have 3 Ultra or Pro3 cameras, then you actually get more for your money, since 2K recording is now bundled with the premier plan and 4K is bundled with elite.  Lots of folks here were complaining last year about the need to purchase PVR separately, and Arlo clearly responded to that.

If you have a lot of cameras, then the new pricing certainly does cost you significantly more.  Hopefully Arlo will make some adjustments - certainly it's in their best interest to encourage folks to deploy more cameras.  Personally I'd like to see a 10-camera 1080p-only plan (basically the old premier plan with a new name) with the old premier pricing.  They could maybe reduce retention to 15 days if that were needed to support the pricing.

[LandJS]

amen to the old plan.  Unlike some I don't really care about 4K in the cloud.  For me the cloud is for a quick peak and 1080 uses less bandwidth I believe.  If I need 4K that was the purpose of my SD card but now they took that away without elite  That is in no way the impression given at time of purchase and damned sure wouldn't have purchased additional cams.  Other cams are catching up fast and even DVRs and NVRs can get cloud service for $6 per month.  As a stand alone service without Netgear Arlo can't afford to lose it's reputation.

[jpdavidson]

Please update the staus of my request to reinstate my legacy support plan which expired 3/20/2020 because of your failure to notify me first.  See Case #415 614 39

Thank you Jim

[Boot879]

Dear Jim,

Reference your request.

Your request is denied. We have looked over our emails and see we sent you notice but you failed to pay attention. You clearly just don’t know how technology works. As an example you seem to be confused when it comes to customer service and forums.

Good luck with your future camera needs.

Regards - Arlo Users Online

[jpdavidson]

That is the most disrespectful customer service response I have ever heard.  Obviously I know the difference between customer service and forums.  Simply check the Case  trail 415 614 39 for non responses.  I asked for evidence of emails notifying me or my office solamarcarlsbad@gmail.com of the Arlo intent to cancel my legacy Smart service for 15 cameras.  You stated “looked over our email's and sent you several notices”…again please have someone send me a copy of at least one email notifying me of the ARLO  intent to cancel or the actual cancellation prior to degrading our capability.   Previously I was told Arlo tried to process the auto renewal directly with the bank.  What is truth?  Once again I have called customer service and have been told I will get a call back from a supervisor.  It will be a first. 

I certainly do not want to hear from you.  You should be fired.  Hopefully your  supervisor is customer focused and will review this  chat string.   

[gdhatt]

jpdavidson:  Boot879 isn't an Arlo employee; he's just an Arlo customer and user of this forum, like you & me.  Although I agree with you, his answer is rude and inflammatory, I'm not surprised, based on other posts he's made in these forums.  He makes a point, but he uses language that comes across a bit arrogant, smug, and suggests that he's quite pleased with himself.  Just remember that he doesn't represent Arlo, nor their customer service department -- so don't be confused.

Stay home, stay safe, stay healthy!

[LandJS]

First off I don't believe that response came from Arlo and JamesC needs to look into it and if needed remove it.  If it did, Arlo is deeper in the toilet then the last dump I took.

[Boot879]

Jim,

As much as I would enjoy dragging this out and having a laugh. I’m not an Arlo or Netgear customer service rep. They don’t respond here or answer your questions on this forum (At least not in a meaningful way which will resolve issues). I replied the way I did as a joke. Hence my obvious cavalier attitude. I also included a ridiculous clue when I made reference to “customer service vs forums”. This is a forum. A user forum. It’s not a place where anyone associated with Netgear or Arlo will give you any real answers.

Good luck with your service. The changes have us all frustrated.

[Boot879]

gdhatt

My response to Jim was clearly tongue in cheek. The fact he thought it was a response from Arlo is a clear indication he isn’t sure who he is talking to or what is happening. (Probably explains what happen with his service being cancelled). I looked back through my posts on this forum (the very few I have on here). Several are the same post referencing the old “pink tint” problem with the original Arlo Wire Free cameras. Those are cut and pasted to the various threads and they all talk about a work around that helps fix it. I don’t see a bunch of post with arrogant and smug wording... unless you mean the use of grammar. Clearly THIS reply to you is a tad condescending. As for representing Arlo or Netgear. Someone would absolutely have to be extremely confused to think I represent Arlo or Netgear.

[jpdavidson]

At least you clarified you are not an Arlo employee.  Yes I am confused.  I accessed this forum through an ARLO website.   Why would I think ARLO would ignore the comments from customers?

Maybe it is old school to assume ARLO would be interested in customer feedback.  After all I am 81 years old..been involved in customer service for over 60 years.  So thanks for telling me…and confirming the ARLO customer service attitude.