Discrepancy Between Cloud Saves And VMB5000 Files

[AshTray900]

I have noticed that my VMB5000 is filling up with video files, however Arlo cloud/smart seems to be identifying what it needs to unless a camera is in the process of recording a useless video. ( I have the ultra 2 cams )

this happens primarily during the day but when looking at the VMB5000 video files I see no movement.

Also due to the limitations of 5ghz I am stretching my base to reach all cameras and have them in good network range, I believe if two are recording to the base at the same time it degrades my signal and smart doesn’t always detect a valid video and upload it to the cloud.

I have tried several different sensitivities, the cameras are hard mounted and not movable, I seem to either get no unneeded video files but then I am missing ones I need to be triggered unless motion is really high, otherwise I am getting files filling up the base and sometimes missing smart or any videos being saved to the cloud and being notified.

as stated above the sensitivity seems to increase during the day.

I’ve stepped around in 5% increments and can’t seem to find a sweet spot and can also see absolutely nothing in some of the videos captures and send to the bases SD card, what in the world is triggering it that I cannot see, the sun moving lol!

all cameras are positioned to where the activity I need falls below the darkened area and I have traced out the activity zones to just monitor my yards and cut out neighbors yards and streets/sidewalks, but even then I don’t see any activity on them on some of the videos stored, these things can be so active they are recording every 3 minutes or so sometimes with no apparent trigger.

what is the solution to this? There apparently seems to be a difference between what the camera decides to record and what gets uploaded. And while I can keep my my cameras in the green, when both the front and back one are going at the same time I notice a big drop in signal strength. Before on the antique base I had no clue what the SD card was doing but it was 2.4ghz all cameras had almost 100% on the signal (guesstimate) and it never missed a single important video and never falsely notified me until huge winds moved thing around that were obvious.

don’t know what to do, invested a lot to get new cams and been playing with them for a week or two to get them just right and can’t 😞

[DannyBearAgain]

Where in the app are you adjusting the sensitivity?

 If you’re adjusting sensitivity in the camera settings then you will need to edit the camera rules instead which is where the triggering is set.

[AshTray900]

@DannyBearAgain 

In the mode “outdoor cameras” I set up. I see the also have a setting under devices I didn’t modify this as I assumed the mode overrides it.

note they are plugged in so may behave differently when they know they aren’t trying to conserve power I dunno 

I checked and currently both in devices and mode they are 80%, 75% misses the cars pulling in sometimes and still collects extra vids, 70% they match but miss alot of important stuff

[DannyBearAgain]

This article identifies the arlo cameras that use pixel detection when plugged in.

https://kb.arlo.com/583/How-does-the-motion-detection-feature-work-on-my-Arlo-cameras 

The ultra/ultra2 are not mentioned as having the pixel detection feature but could be an omission.

The sensitivity setting in the device settings is a test utility for determining what value to use in the camera rules.

Not sure if it is linked to the pixel detection as it has historically been tied to the PIR detector.

If you unplug the camera from external power will it behave differently? It should only trigger record using the PIR detection.

[StephenB]

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@DannyBearAgain wrote:

This article identifies the arlo cameras that use pixel detection when plugged in.

https://kb.arlo.com/583/How-does-the-motion-detection-feature-work-on-my-Arlo-cameras 

The ultra/ultra2 are not mentioned as having the pixel detection feature but could be an omission.

I believe the KB is correct (and that the Ultra/Ultra2 do not use pixel detection when plugged in).

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@DannyBearAgain wrote:

The sensitivity setting in the device settings is a test utility for determining what value to use in the camera rules.

Not sure if it is linked to the pixel detection as it has historically been tied to the PIR detector.

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The threshold (and the test) apply to whether the camera is using PIR or not.

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@DannyBearAgain wrote:

If you unplug the camera from external power will it behave differently? It should only trigger record using the PIR detection.

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I agree this is a useful test.

[AshTray900]

@DannyBearAgain 

@StephenB 

I can disconnect from power to test, however long term it will not help me if that’s the solution.

the two cameras that do it face almost exactly east and west, this is really the only way to place them, however they should not have much sunlight and everything has been cut out of the active zone that could be an issue at all unless it’s picking up on the shadows of clouds in the yard. They also tend to do this in the day I just checked and the videos basically run from 8-4 then stop this is basically and hour after sunrise and an hour or two before. I would say this is the the cameras have sunlight above the field of view, as in the activity zone has sunlight hitting it, this looks like it exactly coincides with the issue.

I am not really concerned with excess videos on the base as long as Arlo smart is keeping them out of the cloud and not notifying me, but notifying me when real movement is detected, however I believe (and this is just a guess but those two exact cameras are furthest from the base and if they happen to run at the same time either signal strength goes out the window or Arlo smart misses something.

it’s also funny that when this starts happening both cameras do it, the one on the sunny side and the other, they both stop at the same time also. I do not have one set to trigger the other, it’s a basic mode setup, 4 cams outside that are in the mode. The other two point I’m directions that have no view of the sky but one still has access to a good part of the yard.

it may be possible the sky is an issue, but I try to resolve and of that, I cut 1/3 of the cam view out of the activity zone.

what would changing the degree of vision do, does this adjust a lens in the camera or simply trim the resulting image down, I’d hate to lose the new 180 degrees but it is what it is.

the prior system was the pro 1 and it’s cameras are in the exact places the new ones are, hard mounted to the way very firmly so they can’t be bumped out of place. The ultra just has a much better FOV

im rocking it on 80% this weekend I may run multiple tests and see if arlo smart catches me when I want it to and ignore garbage videos every time, if I can verify this is the case then I’m just down to excess videos on the base and shorter long term backup, one day I got about 4 vids ping me in smart but the base had 13gb of stored videos. That 512gb card wouldn’t be worth much in that case as the arlo smart history would be longer than the base memory.

I will need to wait to do the unplug test until this weekend also as even though I work from home I can’t be out wandering to trigger useful motion to mix in with garbage.

it would be nice to know exactly what detection mode it uses and how it interacts with activity zones and also how it determines what to send to the base and what to send to the cloud when plugged in, this is my main reason for replacing them, I decided to wire my cameras in the attic to stop the pain of charging and didn’t want to buy knock off products for cameras who’s charging jacks were dated.

[StephenB]

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@AshTray900 wrote:

it would be nice to know exactly what detection mode it uses and how it interacts with activity zones and also how it determines what to send to the base and what to send to the cloud when plugged in, this is my main reason for replacing them, I decided to wire my cameras in the attic to stop the pain of charging and didn’t want to buy knock off products for cameras who’s charging jacks were dated.

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Activity zone processing with the Ultra is done in the cloud (even when plugged in).  Every time the detector is triggered, the recording should be made to the base.  If the cloud determines that there was no motion in the zone, then it will supress the cloud recording and also supress the notification.

In short, you shouldn't be seeing any recording in the cloud that isn't also in the base (no matter how detection is done).  You will see recordings in the base that aren't in the cloud - either because they didn't have motion inside the zone, or because there was some problem streaming them to the cloud (lack of internet bandwidth, Arlo server issues, etc).

Unfortunately there are several areas where Arlo has chosen not to give a lot of detail.  Exactly what features are turned on in the camera when it is AC powered happens to be one of them.  This is perhaps because it is model-dependent, and perhaps because it can change over time as they fix bugs??? - not sure.  Another area which IMO isn't well described is the smart notifications.  For example, if a person and a vehicle are both detected in the scene, then will the notification be for People?  Or for Vehicle?  Arlo just doesn't say.

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@AshTray900 wrote:

im rocking it on 80% this weekend I may run multiple tests and see if arlo smart catches me when I want it to and ignore garbage videos every time, if I can verify this is the case then I’m just down to excess videos on the base and shorter long term backup, one day I got about 4 vids ping me in smart but the base had 13gb of stored videos. That 512gb card wouldn’t be worth much in that case as the arlo smart history would be longer than the base memory.

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13 GB is a lot for one day, but still would be about 40 days of storage.  Not sure if you get 60 days of cloud storage (Europe gets this with Secure Plus) or 30 days (everyone else).

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@AshTray900 wrote:

what would changing the degree of vision do, does this adjust a lens in the camera or simply trim the resulting image down, I’d hate to lose the new 180 degrees but it is what it is.

the prior system was the pro 1 and it’s cameras are in the exact places the new ones are, hard mounted to the way very firmly so they can’t be bumped out of place. The ultra just has a much better FOV

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The Ultra's FOV is certainly a plus.  The PIR sensors (it has two) are supposed to be adjusted to approximately match the field of view.  So shrinking it some might change the detection at the edges.

If you are getting a lot of unwanted detection at the bottom of the field of view, you could also try inverting the camera (and applying the invert video setting).  The PIR sensors are more sensitive to motion at the bottom of the field of view, inverting them changes that to the top. 

Putting a shade over the camera would reduce the triggering at the top (assuming the shade is big enough to block the unneeded sky).  Of course tilting the cameras downward would also reduce the amount of sky.

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@AshTray900 wrote:

however I believe (and this is just a guess but those two exact cameras are furthest from the base and if they happen to run at the same time either signal strength goes out the window or Arlo smart misses something.

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Note the Pro 1s are 720p, so use less bandwidth than the Ultras.  And WiFi bandwidth does decrease with distance, so all things being equal you need better signal strength with the Ultras.

It's possible that the wifi connection between these cameras and the base simply doesn't have enough bandwidth to carry two videos at the same time.  You might try enabling 4K livestreaming, and see what happens when you try to livestream both cameras at the same time from the app.  (The browser always livestreams at 1080p).

You could also do a test with Auto Track & Zoom enabled on both cameras.  That will reduce the recording resolution to 1080p (which will lower the needed bandwidth).  Personally I keep this mode off - I'd rather zoom on playback, and get everything recorded.  But it could be a useful test.

If you need more bandwidth, then about all you can do is move the base (or purchase a second one).

[AshTray900]

@StephenB 

Mine only has a checkbox for 2k streaming but they are supposedly supposed to support 4k.

double streams causes chaos and I do have fiber internet.

the older system ran on 2.4ghz band which is better going through obstacles, from what I’ve heard these use 5ghz Wi-Fi and is not as distance friendly.

I would think a second base should either be unnecessary or should have been included if one alone cannot handle a 3bdr 1560sqft house, they don’t get a whole lot smaller unless you rent. I am out of options with base placement. I have found the best spot that seems to light them all up in the green zone.

I dunno, for now I’ll leave it as is, if the base doesn’t keep much my secure plan has 30 days, the situation I don’t want to get into is missing any action I need notified about (possibility here) or having excess on the cloud, don’t have this at all

[StephenB]

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@AshTray900 wrote:

Mine only has a checkbox for 2k streaming but they are supposedly supposed to support 4k.

Then you must have Arlo Secure, and not Secure Plus.  So 30-day retention (no matter what geography). 

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@AshTray900 wrote:

Mine only has a checkbox for 2k streaming but they are supposedly supposed to support 4k.

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If you are in the US you will get 4K when the subscription changes kick in (1 March).

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@AshTray900 wrote:

the older system ran on 2.4ghz band which is better going through obstacles, from what I’ve heard these use 5ghz Wi-Fi and is not as distance friendly.

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5 gHz has less reach than 2.4 gHz.  The Ultras (and the VMB5000 base) are dual-band, so the system is supposed to switch to 2.4 gHz if that is a better connection.  Hard to say how well that works.

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@AshTray900 wrote:

double streams causes chaos and I do have fiber internet.

Which of course points to the camera->base connection a limiting factor.

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@AshTray900 wrote:

I would think a second base should either be unnecessary or should have been included if one alone cannot handle a 3bdr 1560sqft house, they don’t get a whole lot smaller unless you rent. I am out of options with base placement. I have found the best spot that seems to light them all up in the green zone.

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Your cameras are outside, correct? 

The reach depends on the distance to the camera, and also what is on the path between the camera and the base.  Some houses have rebar in the walls (concrete construction), some use metal studs.  Both can block WiFi.  So can low-E glass (which has a metallic coating).  Also pipes, big appliances, stove hoods, etc.  I have a chimney in the center of my house that blocks 5 gHz to some rooms (I use a mesh router to overcome that).

If the base is near your router, you can test the bandwidth of your home wifi at the camera location with your phone, using speedtest.net (Ookla app).  That will give you some idea of the bandwidth available to the base wifi.

[AshTray900]

@StephenB 

4 are outside, 2 are within 20 feet of the base and two are more like 35 feet, it’s an open floor but the brick walls are an issue I think, one of the Orbi sats is close to it, in fact I’m using it’s rear ports to allow me to get it centralized as I can, guess I’m down to buying a new base, I’m going to watch the way it works and see how it goes, by march if it’s still acting up I’m going to buy two and put each one near the closest window to the back and front with line of sight view.

originally it was in my office, very close to the front two and I had not set up the back 2 streaming from them was no issue at all

[swiftd]

It seems that once the camera makes a recording and is stored on Arlo base, it should automatically synch to cloud for analysis. This implies the problem is with the Arlo base synching videos to cloud. 
The individual camera settings determine what us captured and all captured content should be synched to cloud.

I have same problem. As example, yesterday I have 7 videos stored on base but only one in cloud which severely diminishes value of Arlo Secure subscription.

[jguerdat]

That implies you have activity zones enabled. The base/hub will record EVERY recording that passes through but the cloud servers act on your zones and if the subject is determined to be outside any zones the video is discarded. Remove the zones for testing to prove that the local recordings match the cloud.