Which Modes To Enable/Disable When Creating Scheduled Automation

[Mkword]

I was upgraded to the new UI app about two weeks ago.

After much trial and error — I thought I had finally figured out a series of automations that created the schedule I wanted — and it seemed to work.  

But eventually during the day the system failed to maintain the schedule. 

After each attempt — I found at some point, an automation did not trigger the next mode at the designated time.

Despite reading the instructions and watching the video several times — I cannot find any information that tells you WHICH MODES TO ENABLE OR DISABLE for each Scheduled Automation.

And/or — in the MODE menu — which Scheduled Automations to Enable or Disable.  Obviously the two Enable/Disable menus/options are connected or related.

When creating a Scheduled Automation, If you don’t choose which Modes to Enable — the Default is ALWAYS/ALL ENABLED. 

I assumed this to be the correct configuration.  It was not. I found at some point the schedule remained stuck in one mode.

FYI-

My current schedule:

2am -  Arm All Cameras - scheduled automation enters Arm Away mode.

9am - Disarm All Cameras - scheduled automation enters Standby mode.

11am - Arm Front Porch Cameras - scheduled automation enters Arm Home mode.

8pm - Disarm Front Porch Cameras - scheduled automation enters Standby mode.

Again — my first attempts to build a schedule I went with the Default Mode enable for each automation.

The Arm Away mode was engaged at 2am by the “Arm All Cameras” automation — it remained in this Arm Away all day and ignored all other schedule automations.

Then — I created a schedule where for each Automation I ENABLED just the MODE the Automation was supposed to enter/start.   E.g. — for the automation to Disarm All Cameras I selected only the Standby Mode to be ENABLED.  I did the same for each automation.  Whichever mode the automation was supposed to start was the only mode I selected to be ENABLED.

This too eventually failed — as at some point in the day the system wound up stuck in one mode and did not change to the next at the scheduled time.

So — then I tried something different.  Each scheduled automation I created I enabled 1) the mode it was triggering to enter — AND — 2) the mode that the next automation would be triggering.  Because whatever mode you enable in the Automation menu — this then shows up as an enabled automation in the mode menu.

But that eventually failed as well.

If any moderator like @JamesC or anyone else knows which modes to enable or not enable for any given desired automation, it would be a massive help!  So far no configuration seems to keep the schedule day in, day out.

***Finally — if anyone from Arlo ever actually reads any of these post/pleas for help (I don’t know the relationship the official moderators have with Arlo) — but if anyone is listening — please hear this:  

THE TERMINOLOGY OF THE SYSTEM IS CONFUSING..  “Automation” “Scheduled Automation” “Mode”

The system UI is unintuitive and the wording is not clear.  

And nowhere is it ever stated exactly what modes should be enabled in a scheduled automation or WHY — and correspondingly what automations should be enabled for each mode.

[StephenB]

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@Mkword wrote:

Despite reading the instructions and watching the video several times — I cannot find any information that tells you WHICH MODES TO ENABLE OR DISABLE for each Scheduled Automation.

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You can't "enable or disable a mode for each scheduled automation"  The "enable list" at the top of the automation does the reverse - it disables the automation when the system is in any mode that is not in the list (and enables the automation when the system is in any mode that is on the list). 

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@Mkword wrote:

When creating a Scheduled Automation, If you don’t choose which Modes to Enable — the Default is ALWAYS/ALL ENABLED. 

I assumed this to be the correct configuration.  It was not. I found at some point the schedule remained stuck in one mode.

My current schedule:

2am -  Arm All Cameras - scheduled automation enters Arm Away mode.

9am - Disarm All Cameras - scheduled automation enters Standby mode.

11am - Arm Front Porch Cameras - scheduled automation enters Arm Home mode.

8pm - Disarm Front Porch Cameras - scheduled automation enters Standby mode.

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If the enable list in all four automations is set "all modes", then the schedule will always run, and it should never get stuck.

It sounds like something different happened to you.  What mode did it get stuck in?

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@Mkword wrote:

And/or — in the MODE menu — which Scheduled Automations to Enable or Disable.  Obviously the two Enable/Disable menus/options are connected or related.

Yes.  These two lists are duplicative.

For example, if your 9 am automation 's enable list is set to all modes, then it will show up as enabled in each of the three mode menus. 

If you then remove "Arm Away" from the "Enable" list of the automation, then the Arm Away mode menu will also change (showing that the 9 am automation is disabled whenever the system is in Arm Away).

Then if you enable the 9 am automation in the Arm Away mode menu, you'll find that the enable list in the automation will change back to all modes.

[Mkword]

Thanks for the help Stephen.

Honestly, I feel like I’m either high or brain damaged every time I read those statements on the app and even your explanation.  It makes my brain feel like an Ouroboros!

I wish I could understand why this system is even necessary.

If the default setting “Always enabled” is the best configuration to make sure the system schedule is maintained — why is there an option to disable?

“By default Automations will be Always enabled when you enter any mode.  All other automations will be disabled when entering this mode.”

I honestly cannot make sense of this.  If ALL automations are ALWAYS enabled when you enter ANY mode — what other automations are disabled when entering THIS mode?

Ultimately, I don’t think I’m ever going to truly understand what this means.  I wish there something that explained this system by explaining the actual mechanics.  As it is — it just keeps repeating the same words forwards and backwards without an actual explanation of how this works.

I might just be dumb.  But I read layman books about quantum mechanics and those are by far more explicable to me than this!   😆

It sounds like something different happened to you.  What mode did it get stuck in?

It got stuck in Arm Away the first time.  The second time it got stuck in Standy.

The schedule was followed most consistently when I set each automation to enable the mode it triggered the system into — and the mode that would be triggered by the next automation.

This actually worked for a whole two days before today when I suddenly found the mode in Arm Home when it was supposed to be in Standy.

If Arlo could ever explain why this system is set up this way — specifically if they can explain why one would need or want to NOT choose the Default Always Enabled — then I might be able to wrap my head around it.

For now — I’m going back to setting all automations to Always Enabled for a couple days and see if it works the way it should.  If it does I’ll just have to assume I did something wrong before.  

Appreciate the help as always!

[alex_loo]

hi @Mkword did you have a chance to try geofencing (Automation "Leave" and Automation "Arrive")?  Assuming you have more than 1 device too.

Alex

[StephenB]

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@Mkword wrote:

“By default Automations will be Always enabled when you enter any mode.  All other automations will be disabled when entering this mode.”

I honestly cannot make sense of this.  If ALL automations are ALWAYS enabled when you enter ANY mode — what other automations are disabled when entering THIS mode?

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The key words here are "By Default".  If you remove a mode from the automation menu (or equivalently remove and automation from the mode list), then the automation will be disabled when you enter the mode.

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@Mkword wrote:

If Arlo could ever explain why this system is set up this way — specifically if they can explain why one would need or want to NOT choose the Default Always Enabled — then I might be able to wrap my head around it.

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I think we did cover this before.  If you want to disable the schedule when you are away, then you'd need to disable the automations in the "Arm Away" mode, and manually put the system into Arm Away.

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@Mkword wrote:

The schedule was followed most consistently when I set each automation to enable the mode it triggered the system into — and the mode that would be triggered by the next automation.

This actually worked for a whole two days before today when I suddenly found the mode in Arm Home when it was supposed to be in Standy.

2am -  Arm All Cameras - scheduled automation enters Arm Away mode.

9am - Disarm All Cameras - scheduled automation enters Standby mode.

11am - Arm Front Porch Cameras - scheduled automation enters Arm Home mode.

8pm - Disarm Front Porch Cameras - scheduled automation enters Standby mode.

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I'm not 100% sure what you mean by this.

If the 2am automation to switch to Arm Away is only enabled in Arm Away, then it only run when the system is already in Arm Away.  Since there is no real effect if you switch to Arm Away when you are already in Arm Away,  it doesn't do anything.

If we ignore the vacation use case, then the simplest answer for your schedule is to enable all the automations in all modes.  So maybe try that again, and see if it gets stuck again.  Make sure you don't manually disable the automations - that might be what happened when they got stuck.

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@Mkword wrote:

Honestly, I feel like I’m either high or brain damaged every time I read those statements on the app and even your explanation.  It makes my brain feel like an Ouroboros!

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The structure in each automation is an IF  <....> THEN <....>

IF <the automation is enabled in the current mode  when the time is reached>, THEN <the automation will run and perform the actions>.

[alex_loo]

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@Mkword wrote:

If the default setting “Always enabled” is the best configuration to make sure the system schedule is maintained — why is there an option to disable?

“By default Automations will be Always enabled when you enter any mode.  All other automations will be disabled when entering this mode.”

I honestly cannot make sense of this.  If ALL automations are ALWAYS enabled when you enter ANY mode — what other automations are disabled when entering THIS mode?

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Personally I'd disagree with @StephenB to have all automations enabled in all modes.  I understand many times this may  just make things work, but most of the time, adding confusion as to what's going on there.

And I agree with you, @Mkword , that ARLO is making the app and terminology so confusing here.  It is just creating more troubles for themselves, on top of the app issues that are already making users furious.

My understanding with ARLO's automation and modes is essentially around 1 question:

• For each of the modes (say ARM HOME), what are the automations that are to run next?

and then I'll enable only those automations, under that particular mode.

For example, during the day time when I am home, I would switch to ARM HOME.  The 2 next possible events are:

• it now reaches 1130pm, and I want to switch to ARM AWAY (therefore, I enable my "1130pm sleep" automation, under ARM HOME)
• everybody leaves home for shopping during the day, and I want to switch to ARM AWAY (therefore, I also enable "automation leave", under ARM HOME)

Now, as to how to enable an automation under a mode, I find it SUPER confusing, since you can see this under Routines >> Modes, as well as Routines >> Automations > schedules.   Actually changes on either side will update the other.  So I typically just update this from Routines >> Modes, finding it more intuitive for me.  Of course, you can choose to update on the Routines >> Automations side.

Alex

[StephenB]

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@alex_loo wrote:
Personally I'd disagree with @StephenB to have all automations enabled in all modes.  I understand many times this may  just make things work, but most of the time, adding confusion as to what's going on there.

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The only time you actually need to remove modes from the enable lists in your schedule is when you are combining geofencing with scheduling.  I personally think it's more robust to only remove the modes you have to remove in order to get the combination to work - so generally you only have to remove Arm Away from the schedule automations in that situation.  I've also found that is easier to explain when working with people who are still struggling to understand the basic concepts of how the automations work.  So we disagree on that.

But here, I'm tailoring my advice to troubleshooting his specific case.  He can't add geofencing automations, since he needs all three modes to implement his schedule. So there is no need to optimize the enable list.  And he said his schedule got "stuck".  The only ways that can happen are

1. if the enable list is wrong in some of the automations. 
2. He accidentally manually disabled some of the automations 
3. if there is a bug. 

Setting the enable list to "all", and seeing if the problem recurs is the first step in isolating the cause.

[alex_loo]

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@Mkword wrote:

I was upgraded to the new UI app about two weeks ago.

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My automation schedules on the app have been running perfectly fine.  (only geofencing very messy)

 "feed" app, 1x android + 1x iPhone here.  So your case is a bit surprise to me.

is your app android or iPhone app?  What app version?  (just to make sure we are all aligned with the starting point first)

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My current schedule:

2am -  Arm All Cameras - scheduled automation enters Arm Away mode.

9am - Disarm All Cameras - scheduled automation enters Standby mode.

11am - Arm Front Porch Cameras - scheduled automation enters Arm Home mode.

8pm - Disarm Front Porch Cameras - scheduled automation enters Standby mode.

Again — my first attempts to build a schedule I went with the Default Mode enable for each automation.

The Arm Away mode was engaged at 2am by the “Arm All Cameras” automation — it remained in this Arm Away all day and ignored all other schedule automations.

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When you are at ARM AWAY (as seen on dashboard), what do you see under Routines >> Automations?

• with Modes, "automations" section, do you see all of your automations enabled?  In particular, the "9am disarm all cameras" one?
• with Automation, "schedules" section, do you see the "9am disarm all cameras" schedule enabled? (ie blued)
• what exactly does your "9am disarm all cameras" do?  Got screenshot?

Alex