topic Why using HEVC - doesn 't work unless you have iPhone/Mac Safari in Arlo

Why using HEVC - doesn 't work unless you have iPhone/Mac Safari

ScottGroups — Mon, 19 Apr 2021 14:41:26 GMT

Hi,

I'm looking at security/camera options for my mom and family. I like Arlo's options but I've come into issues with the Arlo Web Portal. I can't play any of the videos. It appears Arlo is using a HEVC standard for video.

I'm really not sure why as HEVC isn't supported natively by anything but iPhone/Mac Safari devices.

You can check HEVC support here: https://caniuse.com/hevc

Nobody uses IE anymore (thank goodness), so the only options are:

-- Buy and install a codec which my mom won't be doing (can't manage that).

-- Buy a device with Safari - she won't be doing.

Why is most of the world not supported on this? Just a blunt question, given the install base of Android, and Windows10.

Let me know if I missed something ... thanks.

Re: Why using HEVC - doesn 't work unless you have iPhone/Mac Safari

StephenB — Mon, 19 Apr 2021 15:43:26 GMT

@ScottGroups wrote:

Why is most of the world not supported on this? Just a blunt question, given the install base of Android, and Windows10.

The Arlo Android app will play HEVC (all Android phones I know of have hardware suport for it).

Windows 10 playback is possible with Edge, but you do need the Microsoft HEVC extension. There is a small cost (though the PC manufacturer might offer a code that let's you get it for free). It also requires GPU support. Intel included hardware HEVC decode in their 6th generation Intel Core processors (released mid 2016). Not sure about AMD.

@ScottGroups wrote:

Why is most of the world not supported on this? Just a blunt question...

Bluntly, excessive licensing costs. Chrome and Firefox generally include software codecs in case the system doesn't have hardware support. HEVC 4K licensing costs are quite a bit higher than AVC, and Google/Mozilla decided not to pay them. After all, the browser is free. Microsoft does offer it, but charges a bit.

Instead, they (along with many other companies) launched the Alliance for Open Media, which created a royalty free codec called AV1.

Re: Why using HEVC - doesn 't work unless you have iPhone/Mac Safari

ScottGroups — Sun, 09 May 2021 02:13:10 GMT

Getting caught up. Thanks for the reply.

However, my question was not about the App -- rather browser support for anything but the App, or any device other than an Apple/iPhone device.

And that is the problem, Windows 10 Edge doesn't have out of the box support -- no one in my family would be able to keep up with buying codec's, let alone the issues with changing devices. Unless you have an iPhone/Apple device - nothing works out of the box.

After this long of a time - this problem is entirely on Arlo to not even offer a solution to support anything out of the box besides the App, or an Apple device. They've had plenty of time to switch to an open code like AV1 -- something that works out of the box. Too bad, but their choice.

Re: Why using HEVC - doesn 't work unless you have iPhone/Mac Safari

StephenB — Sun, 09 May 2021 11:32:21 GMT

@ScottGroups wrote:

However, my question was not about the App -- rather browser support for anything but the App, or any device other than an Apple/iPhone device.

If you don't care about apps, then what does iPhone have to do with it?

The issue is really Chrome and FireFox support. It's not about Apple vs Microsoft.

@ScottGroups wrote:

After this long of a time - this problem is entirely on Arlo to not even offer a solution to support anything out of the box besides the App, or an Apple device. They've had plenty of time to switch to an open code like AV1 -- something that works out of the box. Too bad, but their choice.

While I do think AV1 is a good thing, you are oversimplifying.

The compression is done in the camera hardware, so this isn't a software switch. AV1 hardware support is just becoming available now (for instance, Intel introduced it in their 11gen Tiger Lake chipsets). If the Ultra magically had AV1 encoding back in 2018 when it was launched, you wouldn't have been able to play it on anything.

Anyway, Arlo's only real alternative for Chrome/Firefox support with their current cameras would be to use H.264 at a higher bitrate (and even that assumes that the camera hardware supports H.264 @ 4K). IMO, their only other option would be to supply apps for Windows and MacOS, and drop browser support altogether.